;)
The Shedding Of Blood
Posted by Chris Johnson in Bible & Theology
It was at the right time that Christ Jesus entered into creation. The Hebrew writer revealed an inestimable plan of God that existed before there was a time or place where Jesus would be born ….and then in a creation of time; the precise stage for history was set… Jesus Christ shed His blood for the remission of sin.
I often meditate on this amazing truth…where previous to the creation of time… Christ, the Lamb…was slain for the remission of sin; and I was chosen in Him to be holy and blameless for His glory before creation.
Ephesians 1:3-4 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, (4) just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.”
John 17:24 “Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.”
Effective before the creation of time….the Father revealed a love that He had for His Son, an existence where we, as those chosen to be holy and blameless before Him, were given by the Father to the Son. A truly amazing thought! Individual, earthen creatures, whose life would be set free in time, were given by the Father to the Son before creation was called forth. Some believe that it is within the creation of time where God realized a plan for His Kingdom…. as if God cannot effect without the passing of time. So too follows many explanations of the gospel; yet there is only one gospel that God has revealed as His power unto salvation.
Many are ashamed of this gospel….thinking that God only has revealed this power of late. How many will truly defend God’s love for His Son!
Romans 1:16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.”
It is only believers that are unashamed of the love that the Father had before the creation of time. A love played out through the struggles of the Jew first and given prominence to the Gentile for a short time. What love is this?
Hebrews 2:5-9 “For He did not subject to angels the world to come, concerning which we are speaking. (6) But one has testified somewhere, saying, “WHAT IS MAN, THAT YOU REMEMBER HIM? OR THE SON OF MAN, THAT YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HIM? (7) “YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; (8) YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET.” For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him. (9) But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.”
Does it really matter? I mean…..does the blood shed, the true testimony of love known of the Father for the Son before time really count?…or is it merely a look to some distant future in the time created by God; where we would deem our witness to the spilling of blood as its effectiveness? Is there a greater witness?
1 John 5:7-11 “For there are three that testify: (8) the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. (9) If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. (10) The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. (11) And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.”
God’s love, in the shedding of blood, appeared at the right and precise time so that I might agree with the Apostle Paul and the testimony of God and say….
1 Timothy 1:15-16 “It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. (16) Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.”
O what joy there is in believing on Christ as my salvation, and even now recognizing the timeless love the Father had for the Son before the world began!
Blessings,
Chris
;)
;){kind=logo}
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
Chris,
Hey brother…I assume that you are getting the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world from Revelation 13:8. However, there are a number of translations [like the HCSB] that translate it as referring to names not being written in the book of life before the foundation of the world and thus not referring to the idea that the Lamb was slain before them.
However, let’s assume for argument’s sake, that the KJV translation gets it right. I would interpret that to mean that the Lamb being slain before the foundation of the world means that it was as good as done in the sight of God even though it had not literally taken place in time.
I think this can be likened to Romans 8 where Paul tells us that we have been “glorified” [aorist tense I believe] instead of saying that we “will be glorified” in the future.
So here is how I see it.
1. The gospel was as good as done before the foundation of the world.
2. The gospel revealed in the Old Testament is the same gospel revealed in the New Testament.
3. The gospel revealed in the Old Testament was less clear than the gospel revealed in the New Testament [the literal slain Lamb is a less clear revelation of the gospel than Jesus dying on the cross, for example].
4. The basis of Abraham’s justification–the work of Christ–through faith is the same basis for justification through faith today.
5. The Gospel event that is grounded in history–cross & resurrection–did not take place in the Old Testament era, but in the New Testament era.
Brother Benji,
Thank you for the well thought out response. I thought you might have some feedback on this one.
The question though, is this….. Was salvation complete before the foundation of the world? This question has obviously been a hotly debated issue for quite a long time as you know. In other words ….were those (believers by grace through faith) that the Father gave the Son effectively known as secure in the Son before the foundation of the world? It seems like a fairly simple question to answer. Yet it has sparked many a conversations.
I like how you have couched the argument… In that, would it make any difference if Christ was not slain before the foundation of the world (using the thought that “it was as good as done”…but not really done yet)? Are there any theological problems with Christ “not” being slain before creation was brought forth? Is the Holman translation getting close the meaning or is it depending upon relative tradition?
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. (14) It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Blessings,
-Chris
Chris,
When John talks about the “given ones”, I take that to be John’s way of talking about “the elect”.
Now, I am not sure if when Jesus talks about the Father giving them to Him if He is talking about given before or after time. When Jesus talks about it in John 17:6, is He saying that the Father gave them to Him out of the world in time or before time?
I’m not sure. I believe our salvation was still secure before time either way.
I would say that the salvation of the elect was certain before time, accomplished on the cross in time, and applied as the bountiful fruit of the cross in time as well.
I believe those that God had a special love for were actually chosen to be saved before time and are actually saved in time based on the actual work of Christ in history.
Now, something else to think about is Paul saying that we have been raised up and sitting with Jesus in glory [Ephesians 2:6]. Of course, we are not literally in glory with Jesus right now, but it seems to me that in God’s sight we might as well be.
Benji,
I’ve got to run out for a few hours….but I have a few more thoughts that I will put up later… I believe this subject is indicative of how we share the gospel.
Blessings,
Chris
Brother Benji,
Thank you for this good statement…..
“I would say that the salvation of the elect was certain before time, accomplished on the cross in time, and applied as the bountiful fruit of the cross in time as well.”
I do believe that we, those who proclaim the gospel of God, are sometimes prone to stand facing mostly one direction…which we have created in our minds when we come to the cross. While it seems that those who are in Christ do well to understand that the time of the cross must indicate and picture the true tabernacle and the eternal sacrifice (Hebrews 9).
We must press on as the Apostle Paul indicates knowing the effect of the eternal sacrifice for all those who believe by this same faith delivered once for all to the Saints. As Abel, Noah, and Abraham looked to and had faith in God (Christ) ….so we are in Jesus Christ the Lord ….cleansed by the same eternal blood of the covenant. Praise God for His bountiful mercy!
Hebrews 13:8 “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.”
Blessings,
Chris
Benji,
BTW…. We certainly are seated with Christ. God would not have it any other way… If we are in Christ,…we “are with Him” where He is….another great thing to think about.
That is an excellent reason to endure with great joy on earth and bring glory to Him now and forever more.
2 Corinthians 5:17 “Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.”
Blessings,
Chris
Now, something else to think about is Paul saying that we have been raised up and sitting with Jesus in glory [Ephesians 2:6]. Of course, we are not literally in glory with Jesus right now, but it seems to me that in God’s sight we might as well be.
Chris,
Thanks for this interaction. Would you agree with John Gill’s commentary on Ephesians 2:6?
and in these they are made to sit already; which is so said, because of the certainty of it, for the same glory Christ has, they shall have; and because of their right to such a blessing; and chiefly because Christ their head is set down therein, who sustains their persons, bears their names on his heart, and represents them.
What Gill says here concerning “certainty” is, I think, along the same lines of how I interpret Revelation 13:8 if the KJV translation is correct. Is this how you take it or do you take it a different way?
Brother Benji,
I don’t have any issue with John’s commentary on this passage. Yet, I might have a tendency to harden the meaning even further and echo the sentiments of the Apostle Paul which projects the meaning I am inclined to believe….
Galatians 2:20 “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.”
The “right to such a blessing” is actually occurring as Christ lives in us …and we no longer live.
Blessings,
Chris
Brother Benji,
Abraham was looking to the promise of what was already a true. So that,…if the Apostle Paul were to live in the days of Abraham or Moses,…the message of the Gospel is the same…. That is what is echoed in the same Galatian passage that sandwiches verse twenty of chapter two.
Galatians 2:19-21 “For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. (20) “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (21) “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
The Law was an indicator (tutor that leads us to Christ) that righteousness was fulfilled in Christ (without the limits of time). Jesus Christ is the proof of this reality as He shed His blood on Calvary. His was a needful death; a testimony and fulfillment accentuating the exactness of faith.
Romans 7:4-6 “Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. (5) For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. (6) But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
It is an amazing time in history that we have the great privilege to serve in newness of Spirit….
Blessings,
Chris
Chris,
What do you think about John Resinger’s 4 points? #1 starts with “Two time periods” and is on Page 4.
http://www.soundofgrace.com/pdf/issue145.pdf
Brother Benji,
Interesting read from Reisinger. His writing is very thought provoking. The slight theologically based changes he makes are novel with the respect that he places the loci of faith and gospel as matured….sort of a time shift if you will,…as his basis for commenting on the Galatians 3:23-29 passage. I agree with much of what he has to say,…but would hesitate on a couple things if I am reading him correctly.
I do not see any reason to change the substance (meaning) of faith or gospel based upon time. What I mean by that…is that “the faith once for all delivered to the Saints” was mature even as it is being delivered. When Christ says he gives a measure of faith….that does not mean that the substance or effectiveness of whatever faith “is given” lacks maturity….only the amount given. That same logic would hold true for the gospel. For instance, even if the good news (Christ fulfilling the law, living, death, resurrection, reigning, etc.) was maintained (tutoring / schoolmaster) by the Law,…meaning that the law was indicative of the greater reality of the power of God unto Salvation (gospel), the gospel itself (the power) has never been diminished or changed (only veiled). And when the gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing (2 Corinthians 4).
This is compatible with the unchangeableness of Christ (God).
So,..when Reisinger states or comments on verse 23 as an “age of faith”, that seems to put too much emphasis on the allusion of time….since there is not really an “age of faith”….but only “faith that has come”. It may not be his intent…but he seems to put a parenthetical thought into the commentary by giving us two slightly different definitions of faith by defining them as “ages” of time; when it is only one distinct faith, then and now, that has been delivered to the Saints….all be it now existing in the New Covenant unveiled, etc….therefore the Hebrew writer can give us confidence to know that the faith of Abraham and all the Saints of old was of that same substance and evidential faith (faith, substance of things hoped for, evidence of things not seen).
Maybe I have missed what he is trying to dig out of the passage?
Blessings,
Chris
Chris,
I appreciate your interaction concerning this. What is your interpretation of Galatians 3:23 concerning the faith that had not come and has now come?
I think it is at least speaking of something that is involved in what has happened in the coming of Christ in redemptive history.
Brother Benji,
I believe a good progression for understanding faith is seen as the Apostle Paul explains his now unashamed passion for the gospel, it being the power of God for salvation,….and then dives immediately into explaining the righteousness that is revealed from “faith to faith”…..not differing faiths, but “a faith” that reveals righteousness”… Paul is probably borrowing from Habakkuk to cement this meaning… as he relates this passion is how a righteous man lives….by Faith (entire Canon)
Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. (17) For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”
Galatians 2:19-20 “For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. (20) “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
Galatians 3:23-25 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. (24) Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. (25) But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
The Apostle then approaches the midpoint of his Galatians letter in much the same manner. In other words, how did Paul and “we” ( vs. 23 – those Christ followers now beginning to understand the different faiths) think faith existed in the first place? If one was to place faith in the sacrifices… that was not the faith of Abraham or Moses. If one was to place faith in the God that commanded the sacrifices, then that faith is the faith of Abraham and Moses, and the same faith that is being delivered once for all. I get the feeling that these Jews…(like Peter) receiving this letter from Paul were addressing the faith given to circumcision and to sacrifices….which is not the faith required by God and not the faith once for all delivered to the Saints. That is why the Apostle Paul started his correction using Peter as the grand example of what faith is not….. because it is faith in the Law that skews the message of the gospel and is the ill in the church today.
“But before faith came”…..simply points to the Apostle Paul’s and the Jewish contingents ignorance, being shut up in the Law. Paul is not making the case that faith all of sudden appeared like it never had existed before….that would be foreign to the context of the scriptures….Hebrews make that very clear. Paul’s statement here is a general overlay to the existing problem that had emerged in these churches.
“but now that faith has come”….relates to faith being recognized…. Not a universal decree that a different faith has arrived. In other words,….sincere faith is and has always been in association with God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) never the Law or any other things that we intend to make an idol.
I believe Paul’s admonition to Peter stems from what has become obvious to them through the Spirit….the coming of the Savior, Jesus Christ. Paul is simply reminding Peter and all in these churches that true faith can be in none other than Christ; God with us….and now in us.
Galatians 3:26-27 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. (27) For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Blessings,
Chris
Chris,
I’m glad I printed an extensive study on Galatians off because I cannot find it on the internet anymore. This is a quote from that study and I do not even know the person’s name who wrote it [I would like to give the person credit by giving the person's name].
I think you will find this quote in italics from this person interesting:
The old covenant was only “typical” and promissory (It typified and pointed to life but could not grant it.) The promises of that covenant were conditioned on obdeience. Though God granted blessings to Israel under that covenant, those blessings were only typical of the true, spiritual blessings that resulted from the mediatorial work of Christ. God could not grant the antitypical blessings until one came who could meet the terms of the covenant. Some Israelites did experience some of the same spiritual blessings that new covenant believers enjoy, e.g., justification by faith. Yet, they did not enjoy these blessings because they had kept the requirements of the law. To those who accounted Him faithful, God’s granted these blessing “on credit” until Christ appeared to both cancel the debt (Heb 9:15) and earn the promised blessings. The new covenant is “antitypical.” The spiritual reality that the types of the old covenant prefigured is realized in Christ (John 1:17). Every promise of spiritual blessing that God has made finds its fulfillment in Christ (2 Cor 1:20).
I like this quote in that I think it maintains the anticipation of Christ from the Old Testament era while also maintaining that believers in that era experienced “some” of the same blessings that believers experience today.
I don’t think Jude could have legitimately said what he said about the faith being once delivered apart from the coming of Christ. I say this because I think the faith he is referring to includes, at the least, the revealed antitypical figure of the Christ who fulfills all the promises of God.
Brother Benji,
I think we are all on the same canvas. Its always interesting to think about what God grants and doesn’t grant in relationship to obedience relative to who has been obedient. That is probably a good topic for another post.
Thank you for the interaction….
Blessings,
Chris
Chris,
Thanks again for the interaction. I don’t want to take this comment stream a direction you would not want it to go
I did find out that the author’s name that I got the quote from is Randal Seiver from his book “The fullness of time: A Biblical-theological study of Paul’s Epistle to the Galatians”.
Thanks again brother,
Benji