Go Vols!

David

I agree that the permeation of overt idolatry within a culture does seem to open the door to the kind of demonic activity I am describing in this post. Peter Wagner (who I have come increasingly to take with a grain of salt on a lot of issues) wrote a little book called “Hardcore Idolatry,” in which he makes more or less this same point. In this case, I think he was on to something.

In the States, we have made a big deal about idolatry being anything in our life that squeezes out our priority relationship with God. And, there definitely is a significant degree in which this is true. However, there is something even more insidious, in the spiritual realm, about the overt worship/veneration of physical idols that we find in many world religions, and even in a good part of Roman Catholicism around the world. When I went to India a couple of years ago, for instance, I was struck by the similarities of Hindu practice there and Catholic practice in Extremadura, Spain. Some people would call this “Folk Catholicism.” But, when these practices seem to have the blessing of official church authorities, as they do in many places, it is hard for me to make this distinction.

On the other hand, the types of idolatry practiced in the States (materialism, hedonism, American civil religion, etc.) definitely have their nefarious and powerful effects, as well. But, for some reason, they don’t always seem to manifest themselves with the same phenomena as those associated with “hardcore idolatry.” Personally, though, I think the devil is just as content to keep someone in bondage through one way as through the other.

Also, unforgiveness and bitterness can open up some big doors to demonic bondage, whatever the cultural setting. Also, dabbling in the occult, sexual perversion, etc. I believe I have recommended the materials of Neil Anderson, related to all this, here on SBC Impact before. Also, Timothy Warner, who has worked as a close associate of Anderson, has written specifically about the implications of all this in cross-cultural ministry.

On a long drive back from a movie (where I grew up, the good theater was an hour away), I discussed with my wife (then girlfriend) about this. I compared it to looking through a peephole into another universe. We can only see so much this side of the wall, and when people try to mess with or control what’s going on on the other side, they are inviting powers far greater than they can imagine into their lives. You can’t play with the demonic. When the lost get mixed up in it they have no recourse for getting out except the gospel.

Praise God that Satan cannot do any more against us than our Father allows!

Thanks for another excellent article on an issue that needs to be shared with all Southern Baptists. I have had similar experiences to yours in church planting and coming in contact with those of different theological backgrounds. It was a new experience for someone such as me who grew up immersed in the SBC cultural. I was aided greatly by a group of Navigators in starting a church once. I have to admit I didn’t ask them if they were baptized by a proper administrator or if they had a PPL. They were as anxious to see a church established in our area as I was and we were able to cooperate. Later most of them moved on to another ministry. I will also add that we had great fellowship and in some areas cooperation with our CMA and AOG friends.

I would like to respond to Dave’s question about spiritual warfare being less common in the US or do we just ignore it. Strider is correct in his evaluation. Do you remember all the temples in Taiwan? I think that in areas where there is idol worship or other types of false worship that spiritual warfare is far more difficult because demonic forces are stronger and able to have greater influence. I can remember the first time I saw a shaman putting on one of his shows, cutting himself with swords, going into a trance or giving messages from dead ancestors. It was a powerful reminder that we do not know all there is to know about spiritual warfare as Strider has mentioned. One thing that helped me was to ask the senior missionaries in our area for information and advice from their experience.

I would also add that I have not seen the relaxed relationship that Strider mentions. Things are quiet now but not all those who created the situations mentioned by David Rogers are gone.

But to get closer to the point we know very little about spiritual warfare which was a key point in this post. The enemy is most certainly at work everywhere in the world. Discernment is much needed to know how. For instance, in my part of the world he seems to work on a personal level with me, tempting me in my weakest places and working on undermining my character and my effectiveness. He is working on my team, undermining our confidence and trust in each other. He is working on the people of Gondor, tearing families to shreds in a variety of ways. He seems to target men and women in similar ways around the world, dividing husbands and wives, parents and children. We are familiar with some of this and it seems to be universal. But here is where the strategies diverge. In the US materialism is the spirit of the age. In Gondor, where I live division tears at society from every angle. In Mordor trust is nearly impossible and even among believers they can hardly meet together to share anything from the heart. In Rohan there is a spirit of fear that pours over you and everyone else as soon as you enter that country. In all of these the demonic is at work and many individuals have given themselves over to these vices in many ways. Demonic oppression is very apparent in illnesses, spousal abuse, prostitution, trafficking, different forms of slavery, and chronic fear. Possession is less common but still a possible factor in those any of us minister to. Spiritual attack and the more extreme examples are much more common in unreached places but as Scott has reminded us we are all in the battle and those “behind the lines” are no less a part of this war and are no more immune to spiritual warfare than any of the rest of us. This all needs its own post. As soon as one of us learns enough to speak intelligently to this maybe we could write it!

Do I take it from the “sound” of that Amen you gave to David’s vain excitement that you are refusing the wonderful gift I gave you back up in comment #27?

cb

I am glad that Alabama won today. That way, it will be even more exciting and rewarding, when the Gator Nation chomps up on them in the SEC championship game.

Thanks for your input. I agree that we tend to gravitate toward the extremes in questions like this: either deny or ignore their existence altogether, or go overboard on it.

Guy,

Thanks for your thoughts, as well. I have wrestled quite a bit with knowing best how to interpret God’s apparent use of those who seem to have doctrinal aberrations or extreme practices. My conclusion is that there are certain doctrinal aberrations and extremisms that are of such a nature that they actually place people outside of the Body of Christ, and “ministries” which end up becoming more of a stumbling-block than a source of edification in the Body. A lot of prosperity oriented ministries come to mind, here, for example. But then, there are others that are off-base doctrinally in this or that, but not to such a degree as to cause me to not consider them as true brothers or sisters in Christ. When this is the case, I must treat them as a brother or sister, with all of the accompanying implications. Yet, I should not take the position that doctrine doesn’t matter. Some of these folks, even though they truly know the Lord, and are truly used by Him in different ways, really are off-base in their doctrine and practice. And yet, they may have certain insights into certain areas of bibical teaching and practice that I don’t have. So, I need to be open to learn from them what I can. At the same time, I do not need to be hesitant in taking a clear stand for what I understand to be the truth of the Word of God, even when it may go against someone else’s belief or practice. I think (as the example of the gypsy pastor who attended our services at the Baptist church in Mérida demonstrates) there are those in the Pentecostal/Charismatic world that are hungry and open for sound teaching of the Word of God, and God may want to use us to help them in this way. I know, for instance, that many Pentecostals/Charismatics, both in the States, as well as Latin America, have been blessed and helped by my father’s ministry. Also, Henry Blackaby, and Experiencing God, have been very well received among a number of Pentecostals/Charismatics.