Divorced Men Serving as Church Elders/Deacons?
Posted by Guest Author in Baptist Life, Bible & Theology
Our guest author today is Jim Stroud. Jim is a lay-elder at Crossroads Fellowship in Cadiz, Kentucky. Geoff Baggett is his pastor. Jim was fascinated by Dave Miller’s post last week and the ensuing conversation. He wrote this response and submitted it by e-mail. We received permission to print his thoughts.
We encourage you get to know Jim by reading his thoughts and interacting with him as you can. And while you’re reading, please honor Jim by saying a prayer for him and his sweet wife, Sue. Jim is fighting a valiant battle against a very aggressive form of prostate cancer.
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I recently read portions of the article, Are Divorced Men Fit for Church Leadership?, written by Dave Miller posted on the sbcIMPACT! Mr. Miller presents his arguments logically and forcefully, but I have a few comments and questions. I have no desire to address each of Mr. Miller’s viewpoints . (I did not read all of the links cited in his post.)
Note: Mr. Miller’s arguments runs counter to some of the greatest minds in church history (not to mention church history, itself).
Note: As presented, Mr. Miller arguments are logical and supportive his conclusions.
Note: Mr. Miller addresses most accepted interpretations of the scriptural texts he cites in his arguments.
Note: Implicit in some of Mr. Miller’s arguments appears to be the issue of forgiveness and fairness. He presents this line of thought, especially, as it relates to men who experienced divorce prior to their conversion to the Christian faith and to those who may have had valid (scriptural) justifications for divorce. By opening a crack in the door for men to serve as elders/deacons in the church, who experienced divorce before their conversion, Mr. Miller inadvertently leaves the door ajar for believing men who experience failure after their conversions. His arguments and rationale could be equally applied to both groups of men. A restored spiritual life at the point of conversion looks very much like a restored spiritual life at some point subsequent to conversion. Of course one might rightly counter that mankind has no spiritual life prior to conversion.
God does not always appear “fair” (as men often recon “fair”) in regards to His standards for positions of leadership among His people. Added to this, sin has consequences, both before and after conversion. Obviously Moses was forgiven for his anger, but he still did not enter into the promise land. David was forgiven for his sin with Bathsheba, but their baby, a product of sin, still died. I have serious doubts the man in Corinth, who openly slept with his stepmother (although forgiven and restored) was ever considered for the position of elder in the church afterwards. If a man gets his slate wiped clean for sins he commits before conversion, why should he not get his slate wiped clean for sins he commits after conversion (especially if he genuinely repents and is restored)?
Along this line of thought, one might consider the likes of Jimmy Swaggart, Jim and Tammy Bakker, and Ted Haggard. Most of these repented, openly confessed their sins, asked for forgiveness and pleaded for a second chance. Should men like Charles Stanley continue to serve as elders, even though they are divorced? Added to this short list of men, are thousands of pastors (elders/deacons) who have had moral lapses, adulterous affairs, and for a variety of reasons experienced divorce. What should be done with these men? Do they have any future in church leadership at the level of eldership/deaconship?
To bolster his argument, Miller might have cited Saint Augustine of Hippo. Augustine fathered an illegitimate son by the first of two concubines (lovers) he indulged before his conversion. He went on to serve as the Bishop (Elder) of Hippo and was subsequently widely admired by both Catholics and Protestants. Many Reformation leaders affirmed doctrinal positions once taught by Augustine.
Priests in the Old Testament most closely correspond to the roles held by New Testament pastor-teachers (elders). Both were tasked with shepherding and teaching the flock of God. The priest and high priest, in particular, were types of Jesus Christ, the ultimate High Priest. Consider first of all, only the “sons of Aaron” could be priests among the children of Israel. That, in itself, does not seem quite fair! Plus, not all the sons of Aaron could minister within the tent of meeting/temple. If a priest had any “blemish” (i.e., if he was “blind”, “lame”, had “a flat nose”, was “brokenhanded or brokenfooted”, had a “blemish in his eye”, had a “crookback”, was “a dwarf”, had his “stones (testicles) broken, or any other such physical blemish) he was “profane” and banned from the “sanctuaries” of God. To many, I am sure these standards would appear extremely “high”, if not outright “unfair” on the part of God. A priest could not take a “divorced” woman as a wife. And of course, he could not take a wife who was “a whore or profane”. (Leviticus 21- KJV)
I only mention the standards God set for priests in the Old Testament to demonstrate the value He places on holiness. God’s value system has not changed. He still insists that the leaders of His people be “beyond reproach”, both, “within” and “without” the church. Although our American culture his changed, divorce cases still do not go unnoticed, especially in rural communities. One would like to think, every church congregation would be able to discover at least two or three men who meet a higher standard. As a husband and father of five children, without question, I would place higher esteem on a qualified man, with no divorce in his background, as opposed to a man with the “shadow” of divorce in his. All things being exactly equal, I would prefer the counsel of a man who had proven constant in his marriage vows as opposed to the man who had broken his. All the while, I am sympathetic to the man who is forced into a divorce by a wife or legal system he has little or no control over.
As mentioned above, the Old Testament priests/high priests were prototypes of Christ. Marriage is also a type, figure, or representation of the relationship Christ has with His bride, the church. As Jesus models the faithful, pure, constant “Husband”, I believe (if nothing other than a preference) we would do well to find elders and deacons that imitate Him. (Yes! I understand we are not allowed to impose our “preferences” over the word of God.)
Note: Miller makes a valid point that we should only speak where the scriptures speak and remain silent where they remain silent. We should say only what they say. No more. No less. If the scriptures do not explicitly forbid a man from serving as elder/deacon who has been divorced, we should not willy-nilly impose the restriction. Honest men have differed over the interpretations for elder qualifications Paul set forth in Titus and Timothy. Of course, Mr. Miller’s article mainly addresses what is truly meant by the phrase, “the husband of one wife”.
Note: God did “permit” the children to issue writs of divorcement (Deuteronomy 24) because of the “hardness” of the children of Israel’s “hearts”, but Jesus made it clear that divorce was never God’s original design or intent. “In the beginning it was not so.” “The two shall become one flesh.” “What God has joined let no man separate.” Jesus does allow for a very restricted divorce scenario in the Book of Matthew (Chapters 5 and 19). So strict was Jesus’ teaching on this subject, his disciples said that, if true, it would be “good not to marry” at all. Jesus did not back down His teaching at all, only noting some might find it hard to live the life of a eunuch. Matthew was directed to a Jewish audience and some have attempted to limit its teachings on divorce to that same audience. The only other reference (Mark 10:1-10) to divorce in the Gospels by Jesus, do not give the “exception” clause and is even more “severe”. Of course, Jesus’ teaching on divorce in Matthew has all the merits of “standing alone”. One sentence in the word of God is sufficient. There will one true interpretation with one or more applications.
There are references in the Old Testament of God giving Israel (His spiritual “wife”) a writ of divorcement because of her unfaithful (adulteries) with other Gods. Mr. Miller might have used this to support his argument.
Mr. Miller (or someone commenting on his article) mentioned the issue of fornication. This is an excellent point. Should man who commits fornication prior to his conversion to Christ get a pass over a man who experienced a divorce? In a Biblical sense (for instance, “the woman at the well” in John chapter four, who had six “husbands” or lovers), the sexual act of intercourse, itself, constitutes becoming “one flesh” or a “marriage”. When the adulteress was brought before Jesus, Jesus wrote on the ground. An old pastor friend of mine once surmised Jesus may have been writing the “names of women” her accusers may have preferred not being brought up. As they saw certain names, they one by one begin to walk away. He freely admitted this was just his own private theory. But I am sure there are plenty of men actively serving as deacons and elders who would not want to be examined on the topic of fornication
Final Note: Paul wrote Timothy to “lay hands on no man suddenly” (KJV). As a pastor or congregation that lays hands on men to commission them as elders and deacons, the above caution always remains before them. Leaders will not only be accountable for themselves and their flocks, they will be responsible for the ones they “lay hands on”. There have been millions of divorces. Many have occurred in the unbelieving population, many in the church community. I would venture the number reflecting the biblical standard of Matthew chapters 5 and 19, are relatively small. Even in these cases, Jesus did not command the wives be put away. I know of many Christian men who refused to put their unfaithful wives away. They struggled, sought God’s grace, prayed, and somehow the marriages survived. I have the ultimate respect for these men.
Take all of my input with a grain of salt. I do not know Hebrew, Greek, or any other of the ancient languages. I do not have seminary training. My degrees were in history and science. I have a personality that is cautious and timid. I appreciate men who can confidently say, “Thus says the LORD!”



Jim,
You make some very good, thoughful points.
My prayers are with you about your health.
David R. Brumbelow
Brother Jim,
I am a bit confused in your comment about fornication. Are you suggesting that the act of sex outside marriage, even if before conversion, disqualifies a person from being a deacon/elder/pastor? If not–what are you saying in that paragraph? If so–do you think many men are going to be willing to discuss so personal an issue, absent “confessional” being part of the Baptist heritage/BF&M?
I must suggest also that while thoughtful, your interpretation seems a bit mechanical. Something we must always ask ourselves in approaching the Sacred Text is, “Do we recognize the presuppositions of the original author, our own presuppositions (and how they may differ), and thus what diference that may make in our understanding?”
I will pray for the Great Physician to minister unto you.
Blessings,
John
David,
You are very kind!
Blessings,
Jim
Bruce,
I only addressed the issue of fornication as it related to Mr. Dave Miller’s post of last week. If, however, fornication constitues a spiritual, if not literal, marriage of two flesh becoming one, then it would appear germaine to our discussion. Few are willing to address divorce, fewer still the issue of fornication. How fornication relates to service as elder/deacon is an open question.
But, regarding divorce, it was, by in large, a “non-issue” for nearly nineteen hundred years.
Grace,
Jim Stroud
John,
I don’t know how I got your name confused with “Bruce”. My apologies!
Peace,
Jim Stroud
P.S.: Some men do not need confessionals, their lives are open books to be read by all men.
I’m a bit baffled that we ALWAYS assume that “divorced” EQUALS “remarried”.
I can’t see even the SLIGHTEST hint that a divorced man who never re-marries can be called the “husband of two wives”, even if we DO stick with that requirement for an elder.
I see this as an entirely different question. Just being divorced is not addressed in the scriptural requirements, as I see it. Because, see, if we say “well, he is not her husband if he divorces her”, that shoots us in the foot when we claim that he’s the husband of two wives if he remarries. Can’t have the definition both ways.
I’m no scholar either. However, as divorce percentages continue to climb, the church has a real “good old boy” problem in its leadership when it excludes every man who has encountered divorce, or, as Jim says, even fornication. In other words, if we insist on being led by those who have no VISIBLE sin though we know they hide bigotry, hatred, racism, pornography, and only God knows what else in their hearts, we continue to perpetuate the devilish lie that those who live a certain way will go to heaven while the rest go to hell.
Am I in favor of divorced men leading churches? No, but that’s primarily because I am not in favor of divorce at all except in very specific circumstances. Is a divorced man automatically exempt from church leadership? Not in my way of seeing things, but I’m not 100% settled. I’ve seen my church struggle because some of the most capable leaders felt unable to serve as deacons because of this particular issue. I’ve seen those men leave the church.
I know I’m late to the discussion. Sorry, just some thoughts
Bernard,
Thanks for your candid input. Not every divorced may feel compelled to remarry. Of course, they may feel they have been “made eunuchs” by either their wives, the court system, or their own personal belief system.
Those who contend men are “free” to remarry, do not always consider the long-term negative consequences on spouses, children and families. My parents divorced in 1958. They both remarried. Both new marriage were not “good”. They both lived long enough to regret their initial decision. Our “new” famlies still feel the pain.
Your Friend,
Jim
Bernard,
One final thought. I have, personally, never seen a divorced or remarried man leave a church because he was unable to serve as deacon or elder.
I have, however, seen scores of ex-wives, children and extended family members leave a church over a divorce. Ex-wifes, children and new husbands typically find it hard to sit across the asile from the “first” husband.
Your friend,
Jim
I should clarify that those men did not necessarily leave the church because of that one particular issue. The way I worded my comment above gives a false impression that is, well, false. Sorry. That issue, in my opinion, was part of a chain of events that left them feeling uninvolved and even unwelcome, even though they were founding members of the church. (I’m primarily thinking of one person, sorry again to keep saying “they”.)
Bernard,
Cool! Thanks for the clarification!
Jim
Jim,
Your comment, “Some men do not need confessionals, their lives are open books to be read by all men,” is a good sound bite. It may even work in certain small, closed communities, where “everybody knows everybody else’s business,” such as in rural communities where there is significant accountability through family ties. Even there, however, I would suggest it is more a function of those with the spiritual gift of faith, because those with it may never harbor doubts, and may have no “dark nights of the soul,” nor even secret desires. But those without that spiritual gift do have doubts, especially during dark nights of the soul, and secret desires which they never act upon–but because they think them, they are real enough, though no one else save Christ may ever know them. And in other communities–in urban and suburban settings where people live for limited periods of time, without the deep roots found in many communities in the South, West, Midwest, and even New England–there is no such accountability, and thus no such community knowledge of men’s lives as open books.
You are exactly right when you say, “Few are willing to address divorce.” That is why I commented–far too many of “us” put our heads in the sand and take the attitude that if “we” do not address it, if “we” just keep preaching, “Marriage is for a lifetime, and failure to heed that automatically costs one leadership opportunities.” We need to get it out in the open, and seek the wisdom of the Bible, the New Testament especially, rather than Baptist tradition. On the other hand, I am certainly not advocating divorce or an “anything goes” attitude.
You also say, “regarding divorce, it was, by in large, a ‘non-issue’ for nearly nineteen hundred years.” I am in partial agreement with you here, but I think you over-generalize things. That has been (I think with little doubt” the teaching of the church, but in western Europe for a lesser period–since those countries became offficially Christian and their laws came to reflect the church’s teaching. Even then, there have been many couples who never divorced (and this remained technically for church ledership), but who lives separate lives under a single roof. Personally, I suspect this is more of a bar to leadership than fornification, especially when young and/or before conversion.
Finally, I’ll throw in one item: the presupposition to the leadership issue seems to be that leadership is positional, it is office-based, i.e., the office of pastor, elder, or deacon. But I generally take
a different perspective on leadership: leaders lead because they are leaders, not because they get elected to an office or get a title. I would be willing to bet there are people in your church, Jim, who lead and yet lack any title other than “Mister.”
Hey: has anyone else had difficulty getting comments in? A couple of times now, I have submitted something, only to have a blank page come up with I hit “SUBMIT” and no clue where my comment went?
John
John,
I agree, accountability is more difficult in large metropolitan
areas. Probably easier to put your past behind you as well. Move to a new neighborhood and start a new life.
I readily admit I am over generalizing to some extent!!
Jim
P.S. I think the server is timing out responses. I have had to keep mine short and hopely “sweet”
I appreciate the way you dealt with my article, even as you disagreed. I am at a family Bible camp where most of my time is taken up and internet service is very spotty.
I just didn’t want you to think I was ignoring this discussion.
And Jim, enough with the Mr. Miller stuff. I’m Dave.
Dave,
I came to the dance late and may leave early. Thank you very much for allowing me to be a part of the discussion. Our overall positions are at polar extremes. But, as is often the case, the truth may rest somewhere in the middle. But, as the Proverb says, “iron sharpens iron”. Let every man be pursuaded in his own mind what the Word says!
Nice to meet you on the blog!
Wisdom and grace to you as you proclaim God’s Word.
Jim
It appears to me that there have been no other female voices in this discussion or in the ones with Dave Miller’s original post. I’ll add mine and maybe to some of you it will sound typically feminine.
My concern is that divorced people carry “baggage.” Hurt, pain, confidence issues, anger and other feelings happen with divorce. It seems to me that it would be better to lose a spouse to death rather than experience the rejection of divorce. They are the “living wounded” among us. Most of these pick up the pieces of their lives and move on, but at some level, maybe buried very deep, or maybe just below the surface, all of them carry the hurt and the scars of the divorce.
I serve as a career missionary with the IMB, so, of course I am aware of the IMB’s policy about divorced people serving as long-term missionaries: they can’t. We do have divorced and remarried people serving as short-term personnel in various capacities. And I have worked with a few (a very few, so my observations are simply that; just my own limited observations). What I have observed is that these folks, especially the divorced-but-not-remarried folks, carry baggage.
Their needs are sometimes stronger (or maybe just more strongly felt) than individuals who are (once) married or never married. Whether it is a need for fellowship or significance or success or companionship or something else, it seems that those I have observed have strong needs and will spend a significant amount of time and effort trying to satisfy those needs.
Ministry requires that we give, sacrifice, die to ourselves for the sake of the gospel. We frequently must empty ourselves as we invest time, energy and focus on our ministry. Paul’s qualifications for those who would be elders and deacons include things that are characteristics of spiritually healthy people. Those who have been deeply wounded can be spiritually healthy, but is it right for us to allow them to carry the burden of leading and being a model for others?
I think divorced Christians have a great deal to contribute to ministry and to the Kingdom of God, but based on my understanding of scripture, and my limited experience, the position of elder or deacon ought to be filled by the non-divorced.
Katie
Katie,
Very thoughtful! Insightful! Articulate!
Thanks for your feminine input!
Bravo,
Jim
Katie,
“Divorce can wreak havoc on a person’s health, even after remarriage. A new study shows that divirce or losing a spouse to death can exact an immediate and long-lasting toll.”—[Source: MSNBC News 7-27-09]
Jim
Katie, Jim -
These are good, valid points that should affect how a church deals with divorcees. Nothing wrong with what you say.
The question for me, though, is whether this is a BIBLICAL requirement or just a good idea.
If we think it’s a good idea and then blame it on the Bible to keep from offending someone, we’re being duplicitous. If it’s really a Biblical requirement, that’s one thing. I’m just not personally convinced that someone who is divorced but not remarried is BIBLICALLY excluded from leadership. Practically, perhaps. Any church could include such a thing in its bylaws or policies. Not a problem. But when we say it’s a BIBLICAL issue, we better know what we’re talking about. I’m not convinced we do. Not convinced that we don’t, either.
Bernard,
We have come full circle and are back to what “the husband of one wife” means. As I noted previously, the issue was a “non-issue” for nineteen hundred years. The old theologians were on the same page.
They thought it was biblical.
Jim
Jim – Yep
I’m genuinely curious – can you give me some support for your statement “The old theologians were on the same page. They thought it was biblical.”? I hear this phrase thrown around a lot in many different circles. Many times, it simply means “a preacher I heard once 40 years ago” or “my grandpa said”. I know that’s not what you’re saying here, but the “1900 years” comment bothers and intrigues me. Most of the theologians before oh, 1400 AD, were predominantly Catholic in nature, and I don’t care much at all for their theology, even though they did basically establish the canon. Your statement here, and I submit this very respectfully, implies that there was no dissension among theologians on this matter simply because it was not a raised question. I submit that the theologians of those times were of a monastic mindset as far as church leadership goes, and it’s just as impossible for a celibate monk or priest or an unmarried 20 year old today to be the husband of one wife as it is for a once married but divorced man. As well, the churches of those days didn’t have deacons; they were top down organizations of popes, bishops, etc. etc. To establish “church polity” based on “theologians” who were part of a church that dictated church polity by force isn’t a valid interpretation, IMO.
In other words, right off the top, using the theologians of the past to establish this as “Biblical” or “not” bears a lot of fleshing out, and the argument doesn’t hold water to me at this point.
But I’m mostly curious if you have specific support that I can add to my knowledge base, more than trying to argue ad infinitum.
Bernard,
Check out “Catholic Encylopedia” article on “divorce”. List theologians back to second century. Church forbad remarriage after divorce. (Herman, Justine, Athenagoras).
Most Protestant formers were just as severe.
Jim
Bernard,
I meant to say “Protestant Reformers”.
Note: Church history up the Reformation Period is dominated by Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Coptic theology. Take your pick!
I disagree w/ much of their teachings as well!!
Jim
Bernard,
I meant to say Protestant “Reformers.
Note: Church history up until the Reformation period is dominated by Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Coptic theology. Take your pick! I disagree with some of their teachings as well!
Jim
So, to me, the question really boils down to this – is divorce a Biblical reason for exclusion from a leadership position, or not? Understanding the presupposition that absolute divorce is impossible once a marriage is consummated – accepting a Catholic definition simply because on the surface I believe it is correct – we can stipulate that any consummation of a marriage after a divorce would be adultery. That’s Biblical based on the statements of Christ himself.
But.
I struggle with the idea of different standards for preachers and leaders. I believe that all Christians are called to the same walk, and it’s NOT “okay” for someone to get a divorce and remarry, with the only consequence being that they can’t be a church leader. Of course, we’re not in the business of controlling peoples’ lives, and it’s not our job to dictate what they can or can’t do.
My point here is that if it’s a sin for a church leader, it’s a sin for a church member. I don’t like the “holy office” mentality to be taken to any extreme, because it leads to a bunch of junk that really sticks in my craw. It leads to abuse of authority, it leads to imperfect men hiding their sin. It leads to men who need counseling leading churches alone because they know they’ll lose their job if they are honest about their struggles. We take these technicalities and say, nope, brother, thirty years ago you divorced a young lady, therefore you are not eligible to lead a church in any fashion. We use these particular issues very conveniently to say “we don’t believe in divorce”, yet I don’t think we get the real point.
The church has a bigger job than just “standing against divorce.” We need to shut up about “standing against” so many things and do something to make a difference in the world. Are we helping couples stay together? No. The percentage of divorces is higher than ever and climbing. The church is obviously making ZERO impact here.
We claim we are against divorce and then we rail at preachers who preach explicit sermons regarding ways to keep marriages together, claiming that they need to preach the gospel and stay out of the bedroom. (Note – I’m not in favor of the “sex” series’ that are so popular, but I’m not sure that my position is right. This discussion leads me to question myself.) If we want to do something about divorce, we’re going to have to do something besides sit around and say that it’s wrong. Denying leadership positions isn’t very proactive, in my opinion, it’s just using a technicality in the Bible to give ourselves wiggle room. “Only leaders can’t divorce. It’s okay for everybody else.” And I say that is an evil lie that the church has wrapped itself up in because it’s easier that way.
Christian couples should be more in love than anybody else in the world. Yet, due to a huge number of reasons, I don’t see that as a universal truth. We struggle in marriage. We find incompatibilities. Many only remain married in title and not in deed, just to protect the ministry of the husband, based on this technicality. Is that a real life? Is that life abundant?
Should a divorced man serve as a leader? Should a divorced man even be a member of a church? Can a divorced man even become a Christian? Will divorced people go to heaven?
I’m CERTAIN that the answer to three of these questions is yes. I’m also becoming more and more convinced that the church is answering the first question based on a technicality – please feel free to insert the word “law” here – rather than upon what the Bible really intends. I believe that EVERY believer is a priest and that every believer is a minister. I also believe that the callings of God are without repentance and that sin is forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ upon the believer. Thus, a man called to be a pastor or a deacon will always – “without repentance” – be called to be a pastor or a deacon, even if he sins by divorcing and remarrying.
Yep, it’s touchy ground. None of what I say here is authoritative or even guaranteed to be right. I’m simply rattling off the things that are in my head about this.
I don’t “want” divorced pastors. I don’t want divorced deacons. I don’t want divorced church members, either. However, if someone is divorced, I’m not convinced that I should claim to have the right to deny them the opportunity to do what they believe God is calling them to.
To me, the question is whether GOD is denying them a leadership position, or the CHURCH is denying it to them. We should be careful to examine the CALL of any person that we allow into church leadership. We should examine their lives to insure that God is truly working, that they are indeed following Christ, and that their current life is moving toward alignment with Christ. Is the technicality of divorce our primary indicator? I think not. I think there are MANY deacons and pastors currently serving that have MUCH bigger problems than an old divorce. We let that slide, because “they’re human”. Yep. They are. But we’re creating classes of sin that I’m not sure God agrees with.
We don’t “enforce” the section about “ruling their own house well” NEARLY as actively as we enforce divorce, because it’s not so clear cut.
Just talking and asking questions. Thanks for allowing me to rattle.
It’s curious that none of the “old crowd” that I know from Impact of a year ago seem to be around. Those of you who don’t know me should know that I often run my mouth on here and stir up just enough trouble to be troublesome but I’m largely harmless. I don’t pastor a church or even stay at Holiday Inn Express very often. I’m just another Christian with a big mouth
I’ve made some great friends on here, but SBC politics aggravates me and I’m not sure how “SBC” I even am.
Bernard,
You are too honest!!! Thanks for your candor!! Remember, as you already do, there is an entire “list” of qualifications for elder and deaconship.
You should take comfort in many of the arguments put forth by Dave Miller.
My background is not SBC. I will leave it at that.
What do you think of 1 cor. 7: 10-11?
Jim
Bernard, both you and Jim should come around Impact often. I don’t know who the “old crowd” was. But your perspectives and styles add lots to the kind of discussions we have here.
Bernard: Your thoughts echo my own. If divorce and remarriage is adultery, when does it stop being adultery? And if it is adultery, not only should divorced people not be in leadership, they should be under church discipline.
I honestly don’t know what the church should do with divorced and remarried folk.
One half of me says that it’s just as sinful to “go back” on a second set of vows as it was to break the first ones. Thus, once a divorced person is remarried, there is no “sinless” recourse. I know a man who separated from a second wife because he had divorced his first wife before he became a Christian and felt he was living in sin if he stayed with the second wife. The most curious development is that God also called him to preach. (I don’t know if that was before or after he separated from the second wife.) My concern is that if he vowed to stay with the second wife until death, how could BREAKING that vow possibly accomplish the restoration of the original state?? Thus, the church has a dilemma – being firmly against divorce, yet still dealing with the fact that many men and women have divorce in their history, for whatever reason, and thus can’t be excluded from the church.
“Church discipline” causes me, quite honestly, to cringe. I believe that Paul’s teaching was for very flagrant situations, and yet today there is a huge movement to “cleanse the church” and “exercise church discipline”. I’m not settled on what’s “right” here, either, but I do want to go on “the record” as saying that I’m not at all proposing that all divorced and remarried people should be told that they have to either separate or leave the church. I can’t reconcile that at all with the fact that many of these people are more Christlike than I am but they have one “glitch” in their background. We’re not God’s policemen. We’re His messengers to the world.
It’s a tough thing.
“I honestly don’t know what the church should do with divorced and remarried folk. ”
They should do with them what they do with all imperfect, fallen, redeemed people. They should not be a distinct class of people within the church. Sins cannot be undone, but they can be forgiven. Bad choices cannot be unchosen but they can be redeemed. See King David for details.
Barnard,
Under the teachings of Moses (Deut. 24: 1-4), once a remarriage took place there was no return to the first spouse. I know of one one who advocates a second divorce as a remedy for an initial bad decision.
Grace
Jim
Bernard,
Also, I do not see any any “huge movement to cleanse the church” or enforce “church discipline”. Quite the opposite. Over the past decades I have witnessed mainline churches scramble to find the lowest common denominator, including their positions on moral issues such as divorce.
Peace,
Jim
Bill, (Comment 30)
Good input! I agree bad decisions can be redeemed. I also believe bad decisons (sins) can have lasting consequences. King David was redeemed and did find forgiveness with God (Psalm 51), but by the time David died his family was a train wreck. (Rebellion, incest, murder, etc. all within the royal household)
God is good! David was a man after God’s heart and a grandfather of our Lord Jesus, the Christ.
Blessings
Jim – Perhaps “huge movement” is an overstatement. I apologize if so. Many that I read of seem to regard this as the solution to our need for “revival”. It’s a big enough movement that it has caught my eye
Good thoughtful discussion. I just wanted to add the idea that Joseph was considered a righteous man while considering putting Mary away. Above ya’ll noted that God divorced unfaithful Israel which also seems to indicate that it is possible under some circumstances to divorce without sin. Also, the purpose of the certificate of divorce Moses gave was to insure that the woman could remarry. No doubt God hates divorce, but He cares for the marginalized, and we still have hardness of hearts. Is it not sentencing individuals with the heartache of divorce in their history to perpetual second class Christianity if we interpret the various Scriptures on qualifications for leadership to trump those which speak of all things becoming new for those In Christ? Is forgiveness so wimpy and ineffectual?
I agree that divorce should be a red flag and leaders should be tested. I also see it as a local church issue and that those who recognize God called leaders who allow their sin/forgiveness to be scrutinized in the examination process are not to be held to mere traditions of men. Case in point. I know of one man who though never having been divorced was excluded from consideration as a deacon simply because he married a girl who had been rebellious and had a child out of wedlock. She had confessed her sin and chose not to abort the child, but came home to her parent’s home and church. He threw his claok about them and made an honest woman of her and adopted the child. I told him he was my hero and I could not understand why such Christ-like actions would disqualify him from service. Any thoughts?
Tommy,
The man you cited appears to be “the husband of one wife”!. If he met the other qualifications for deacon, his service in that position would be fine (with me personally). Love covers a multitude of sins. This man appears to possess that kind of love!
I do not believe there should be any “second class” Christians. I still maintain an elder/deacon should be “the husband of one wife”. See my original article above.
Jim