;)
When Does It End?
Posted by Chris Johnson in Baptist Life, Bible & Theology, Church & Missions
Since I have been in Washington D.C. on vacation fighting the health care improvement mirage, I have not had any time to respond to Brother David Miller’s interesting conversation on marriage, divorce, and leadership. So, maybe we can continue this topic by adding another dimension to gain even more clarification.
Jesus was posed with an interesting question which I believe helps us understand an aspect of the divorce question in more clarity. Two gospel writers presented this situation to us, but I will include Mark’s account for our discussion.
Mark 12:20-25 “There were seven brothers; and the first took a wife, and died leaving no children. (21) “The second one married her, and died leaving behind no children; and the third likewise; (22) and so all seven left no children. Last of all the woman died also. (23) “In the resurrection, when they rise again, which one’s wife will she be? For all seven had married her.” (24) Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God? (25) “For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
The question that comes to the surface with respect to divorce is … when does marriage end? And if that question is answered correctly, does it make a difference concerning a man qualifying to lead the church in being a “one woman man?” Is divorce final in God’s eyes (as if marriage never occurred) when the man or woman is obedient to the regulation of the marriage covenant (basis in the act of adultery), being the same as death of the brothers where full release is found on earth. So, how clean is the slate for the obedient Christ follower… and in the case of a man that has obeyed Christ and followed His word, is he disqualified because of his obedience or has his circumstances created his disqualification even as he is obedient (divorcing an adulterous wife)?
In other words, does the act of obedience to God’s Word end up creating a disqualification for leading Christ’s church?
I’ll be out in DC most of the day, but I’m sure you guys and gals (have not heard from many gals lately though) will have some good answers for me when I return.
Blessings,
Chris
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
I believe the vow we make in marriage ends at the death of one of the partners. The separation of the flesh and spirit at death places us into the kingdom prepared for us by Christ. Therefore, we do not marry nor are given in marriage on the other side.
Though David was King, he could not build the Temple, not because of murder or adultery, but, because he was a man of war. His son from an adulterous union built the Temple, who also had a problem with women. The linage of the Messiah would seem to be held at the highest level of purity, but, it didn’t. David was part of His linage. Those before and after were not any better, either. You would think that God would have tried to help support the future church by disqualifying those in His Son’s linage that sinned like they did. It seems that God’s ways are not our ways. He has a plan and it will be accomplished regardless of our greatest thoughts or designs.
In the mean time, Jesus said that He was going to build His church. How He does that will be mainly up to Him. Whether the divorce issue disqualifies the man in leadership is not really the problem nor is it the issue. Christ is going to build His church and it will be made up of many churches across the world. Regardless of our plan, His will be accomplished. My thought is that we take the right side of the issue and try to accomplish what needs to be done the best way first. If we have to go another way, then go that way. Just don’t hinder what Jesus is building because you may get run over by a dump truck.
You CAN’T be seriously asking this. NObody’s “slate” is EVER “clean”.
Titus 3: 3-7
II Timothy 2: 15, 16, 23, 24-26.
The “clean slate” applies to activities and motives PRIOR to conversion. We ALL must continually undergo a conviction/confession/forgiveness routine on a perpetual basis as long as we walk this earth.
Michael,
I think that arguing about the issue of eternal security is way off topic and perhaps even a waste of time since most readers and commenters on this blog are going to be of the persuasion that Christians can’t lose their salvation.
Chris,
I think that one of the first things we will all agree on is that marriage ends at death (though this may incite comical conversation regarding Lazarus’ responsibilities after Jesus raised him from the dead, assuming he was married of course).
I think a lot of people struggle with that concept one they uncover it. It’s even worse for someone who knows that their spouse isn’t a Christian because it’s not only not eternal, but they won’t even have a relationship of any kind once they die.
My marriage is not eternal. I am consoled by the fact that our relationship is, since we are both believers. It will just change, and for the better, I’m sure. What gets me wondering is how will it change? I look at my wife through the “wife” filter. I look at my parents through the “parents” filter. How will these relationships change once we’re in heaven? Will I look at them as my wife, my parents? Will that recognition be done away with entirely (the filter; I’m not suggesting we won’t know each other)? Who knows? I’m just excited becaue I know everything is better on the other side of this life.
I’m sorry that I too have diverged from the main topic, but I can’t help but wonder at the majesty and greatness of our God.
Brother Bruce,
You are no doubt correct that Jesus Christ will continue to build His church. The main reason I was trying to focus on what we do now, is because of what you have said…and I believe that was the message that Jesus shared with us during His life as well.
Divorce certainly can disqualify a man from leadership, yet Christ has assigned an even greater responsibility to His disciples simply by the act of looking at another woman with lust while at the same time effecting a more perfect law with respect to adultery. More often than not, adultery pursued by a man’s wife may not be the disqualifying factor for leadership; other things may be obvious disqualifiers, and divorce certainly is a major distraction on its own. But divorce alone is an individual case by case determination, since it may not be on its own according to Christ, an abridgement to a man’s responsibility to lead.
Matthew 5:27-32 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’; (28) but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (29) “If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. (30) “If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell. (31) “It was said, ‘WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE’; (32) but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
I have seen several interesting policies put forward by SBC churches concerning divorce and where it places a man. Not all were scriptural.
Adultery is a deathblow to a marriage (and it can end according to Christ), but the amazing thing is that either partner may forgive the other and bring the marriage covenant back to life. The power of forgiveness is amazing.
The church for the most part oversimplifies the consequences of adultery by not looking at the detail,… resulting at times in amazingly poor policy for those with whom they serve as members one of another.
Blessings,
Chris
Brother Michael,
Even though you may have missed the point of the post, your final post reveals what we must do….. I like the conviction/confession/forgiveness cycle; it is how we should live.
Blessings,
Chris
Brother Andrew,
Thank you for digging into this a little more. The question that I am trying to dig around here… is… does the Lord view adultery as a death blow to marriage or not. Does He (Christ) by resetting the view on Mosaic law give us a clear view of why being married is a living covenant that can be broken by one of the partners whereby the “slate” (for lack of a better analogy) is wiped clean or restored through forgiveness or remains dead (as if marriage had never occured in the first place)freeing the unoffended partner to live in obedience to Christ without penalty.
This, in my opinion, is where the crux of any churches policy is crafted with respect to the stigma of divorce.
Just some thoughts,
Blessings,
Chris
Chris,
You write that “Adultery is a deathblow to a marriage …” This is true, but adultery is still more of a symptom and not the cause. Is adultery a deathblow to the marriage or is it the heart that has abandoned the covenant?
Two cases to look at – both of them true. Couple #1 is young and has three kids. The husband has a long term affair with a much younger woman. When the wife finds out she is understandably devastated. The family is very active in their church though the husband is gone most of the time. Through prayer, counsel and grace; the wife is able to work through her pain and forgives her husband. Their marriage is made even stronger by the grace of God and today they are all serving together.
Couple #2 is also young, but they are not involved in church. Over a two year period the husband catches the wife in three affairs, and the wife eventually abandons the husband and their six month old son for the third man. The husband is certainly not without fault but has repeatedly sought to reconcile the marriage – even in the hallway to the courtroom. The wife wants none of it and the divorce is granted.
Now, did the marriage end by the judicial pronouncement or by the heart of the woman abandoning her partner? Unlike the husband in the first couple, this woman has no desire to stay with her husband. So, where does 1 Corinthians 7 enter into the discussion? Or does it?
Additionally, the second husband returned to the God of his youth, was blessed with a wonderful wife and three additional children. For twenty eight years they have loved one another and served the Lord together. Is this man “disqualified” from leadership in the church? In all of this discussion (your post and Dave’s) I think a lot of people are missing the point of 1 Timothy. Personally I keep hearing “What God has made clean, you must not call common,” (Acts 10:10).
Oh well, that’s my two cents from the peanut gallery.
Grace,
Wes
I will say here what I said in the previous comment stream. After nearly 185 comments between these two posts, I think there is one thing we should all agree on – this issue is way more difficult than we tend to make it.
There were so many scenarios raised, so many difficult stories shared (like Wes’ above) that it is hard to make blanket rules with dogmatic pronouncements.
It is a complex subject.
Brother Dave,
I agree with you that it is a very complex issue. I have been watching your post comments and Chris’ and I very much appreciate everything that has been written, whether I agree with them are not. Thanks for your willingness to step into the middle of traffic (so to speak).
It is so dangerous to “throw blankets” on subjects that have such a conflicted “interpretations.” BTW, has anyone mentioned that B. H. Carroll was married three times and that his first marriage ended in divorce? From what I have been able to study, there has not been a real consensus on this issue – particularly from the Baptist perspective.
Grace,
Wes