Are Divorced Men Fit for Church Leadership?
Posted by Dave Miller in Bible & Theology, Church & Missions
Does your church allow men who have been divorced to serve in key leadership roles (pastors/elders or deacons)? This has been a hot topic at my church. Is it God’s will that the divorced be allowed to lead or be excluded from those key positions in the church?
In our discussions, I was provoked by the dogmatic statements some of those leaders made. “I want to stick with the biblical standard (that divorced men cannot serve as deacons) and not compromise with the world.” “The Bible says that divorced men cannot serve.” The problem is, I don’t believe the Bible prohibits divorced men from serving and I do not believe that it is compromise to allow them to do so. Frankly, being called a compromiser did not sit well with me.
So, I went back and studied every scripture I could find in the Bible related to the subject of divorce. I wrote several long blogs on the subject (which you can read here and here and here and here and here and here). I have compiled these into a paper which I will gladly email to anyone who requests it.
I do not have a personal stake in this issue. I will celebrate my 31st wedding anniversary next month with the only wife I’ve ever had (or ever will – at my weight, my chances of outliving her are pretty slim). I just hate to tell fine men in my church that they are not eligible to serve as deacons because of rules I believe are based on misinterpretations of scriptures and traditions that are not textually based.
The Scriptural Evidence
This issue is based almost exclusively on one small phrase that appears twice in 1 Timothy 3 and once in Titus 1. In verse 2, overseers (elders, pastors) were required to be “the husband of one wife.” In verse 12, the same phrase is set as a requirement for being a deacon. Titus 1:6 repeats the requirement for elders. What does that phrase mean? If you figure out what that phrase means, you have settled this issue.
A word of warning is appropriate here. To compromise the Word of God is a serious sin. If God’s Word prohibits divorced men from serving as deacons, we should not ignore that prohibition. However, we sometimes forget that there is another side to this. In 1 Corinthians 4:6, Paul warned the people not to “go beyond what is written.” In Revelation 22:18-19, John attaches severe penalties to those who add to the words of prophecy in the book. It is clear that the warning is specific to Revelation, but the principle is instructive for us.
It would be deeply damaging to the Body of Christ to allow divorced men to serve in leadership positions if the Scriptures prohibit it. But it would be just as serious a sin to prevent men from serving without biblical warrant. It is not acceptable to either take away from the teachings of scripture or to add to them.
I would suggest that the burden of proof is on those who would restrict the divorced from serving. If any redeemed person is eliminated from positions of service, it must be on the strongest of biblical evidence.
Husband of One Wife?
Many commentators, at one time most, saw this as an absolute prohibition of divorced men serving in ministry positions at churches. Since Jesus prohibited divorce and said that remarriage was adultery, it seemed pretty clear. A divorced and remarried man is seen in the eyes of God as an adulterer and has two wives; the one he is currently married to and the one he divorced. If this interpretation is correct, the discussion is over.
Some prohibit all divorcees from serving. Others only restrict those whose divorce happened after their conversion. But they see this phrase as a clear reference that divorced men should not serve in key leadership positions.
The second major view holds this passage as a condemnation of polygamy, not divorce. This seems likely from the English phrasing. “Husband of one wife” seems to naturally stand in opposition to “husband of more than one wife.” Cased closed, right?
But as I understand it, polygamy was not widely practiced in New Testament times, especially in Roman culture. If that is true, it seems unlikely that Paul was focusing on it in a letter to establish leadership parameters for a Gentile church.
1 Timothy 5:9 dismantles the polygamy argument. In that passage, Paul is discussing women who will be put on the widow’s list. They must have been “the wife of one husband” – an identical phrase with genders reversed. While polygamy has been practiced in many cultures, polyandry (multiple husbands) is rare. There is no way that polyandry is in view in 1 Timothy 5:9. If that is so, I am convinced that polygamy is not in view in the leadership passages.
Exegesis
It is my contention that neither divorce nor polygamy is the primary focus of this passage. I believe that Paul is requiring that a man must demonstrate himself as a faithful and devoted husband before he is ready to lead God’s church.
The common wording “husband of one wife” may not be the best translation of the passage. The Greek phrase in 1 Timothy 3:2, μιᾶς γυναικὸς ἄνδρα, could be literally translated “one-woman man” or “a man of one woman.” An overseer or elder, and a deacon, are to demonstrate themselves to the church as a “one-woman man.”
That accurate translation explains itself. What is in view here is the man’s heart. It involves much more than just being sexually faithful to his wife. A one-woman man is faithful in body, yes, but also in soul and spirit. He is devoted to his wife. His relationship with his wife demonstrates that he knows how to be a servant leader. If he is not faithful and devoted to his wife, it is unlikely he will be faithful and devoted to his church duties.
This is a much higher burden than some other interpretations require. Since we do not have polygamy (at least officially) in our nation, that interpretation would render the requirement meaningless. If it is a blanket prohibition of divorce, all a man has to do is avoid divorce court and he is eligible. But this command has more significance than that. I have known men who have never been divorced and have never cheated on their wives, but show little devotion to their wives. They may be technically “the husband of one wife” but cannot by any means be called a “one-woman man.”
Paul’s standard is very high. He requires that men who lead the church demonstrate their fitness for servant leadership in the church by being models of faithful servant leadership in the home.
Conclusion
The meaning of Paul’s phrase here will always be open to discussion and interpretation. It seems highly likely he was not speaking of polygamy. Since polygamy was not a common practice in Roman culture, and since the same construction is reversed as a requirement for a woman, polygamy is almost certainly not the primary focus. Certainly, polygamy would be inappropriate for church leaders, but it is not the chief intent of this verse.
In reality, those who use this as a prohibition of divorce are also assuming the passage refers to a form of polygamy. They believe that the first marriage was not ended and so, by the second marriage, the man has become a kind of polygamist, married in God’s eyes to both his former wife and his current one.
My quarrel with this view is two-fold. First of all, I think it makes a blanket generalization about the teachings of Jesus on divorce that is, in many cases, not warranted. A man who is divorced on biblical grounds is freed from his marriage covenant and is free to remarry. When he remarries, he is the husband of one wife and one wife only – his new wife. The former marriage is over. We will examine this in more detail later.
My second problem with this view is that if Paul was intending to prohibit divorced men from serving as deacons or elders, there are ways he could have stated that more plainly. “An overseer must never have divorced a wife and remarried.” He could have given words that would clearly and unequivocally say what he meant. Paul was never one for veiling his words. He said what he meant. If he had meant divorce here, he would have said it.
It is an unwarranted stretch to use this phrase as a blanket condemnation of divorced men as serving as deacons, elders, pastors, or in other leadership positions. There is no biblical grounds on which to deny all divorced people from serving. To do so, in my mind, is to violate the clear teachings of Scriptures.
Divorce and Remarriage
God’s intent was that a marriage would last until one of the parties died. Sin’s effect on human behavior and relationships shattered the ideal. Permanent and fulfilling marriage is still possible if a couple is well-matched and if they rely on the power of God to see them through. But a marriage depends on both parties fulfilling their vows, and that sometimes does not happen. And so, divorce has become an unfortunate reality in this world. Jesus told his disciples that God permitted it because of the sin, the “hardness” of human hearts.
In all of the discussions on divorce in scripture, there is not a single prohibition against remarriage when a divorce is granted on approved grounds. Deuteronomy prohibited a man from remarrying a woman after he had remarried another wife. But there was no restriction on remarriage in general. Jesus restricted remarriage except when the divorce was because of adultery. But the implication was that when there were biblical grounds, remarriage was not adulterous and was acceptable. Paul set forth a new solution for women whose husbands were cruel or abusive of their authority. They could separate (not divorce) and live single or return to their husbands. The assumption is that remarriage is the intended result of divorce. Paul clarifies in 1 Corinthians 7 that when believers remarry, they should remarry only other believers. Remarriage was assumed, but limited to those who shared faith in Christ.
The certificate of divorce that was historically granted in Hebrew culture specifically permitted remarriage. That concept – that remarriage was assumed when a divorce took place – was never corrected in any of the prophets who called Israel to repentance for sin. Remarriage after divorce was widely practiced and would have certainly been confronted if it was offensive to God.
The necessary conclusion is that if a divorce is granted on approved grounds, the divorcee has the right to remarry. A biblically acceptable divorce ends the marriage just as death does. God’s intent and purpose was to have marriages end one way – death. But He graciously allowed marriages to end by divorce, if the circumstances were right and certain conditions were met.
So, if a man has been divorced on biblical grounds (as I have defined it; adultery by his spouse (as Jesus taught) or abandonment by an unbelieving spouse (as Paul added), he is free to remarry. His first marriage is over in the eyes of God; the marriage covenant having been broken by the sinful actions of another. When he remarries, he is the husband of one wife and one wife only. So, even if the prohibitionist position on the “husband of one wife” phrase is correct, he is still qualified to serve.
New Creatures in Christ?
I have never understood how someone could believe 2 Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come,” and still advocate eliminating people who were divorced prior to salvation from service. Do not misunderstand. I am not accusing my opponents on this issue of willfully denying scripture. I just believe that their position on divorce is in conflict with this verse.
When a man comes to Christ, he becomes a new creature. His sins are washed away and God begins to conform him to the image of Christ. Yet, some would restrict that man from serving as a church leader because of something that happened before he was saved. It seems contrary to the concept of transformational grace to exclude a man from leadership based on his pre-conversion behavior.
We don’t do that with other sins. Why don’t we exclude everyone who engaged in premarital sex from serving? We rejoice when ex-cons, drug addicts and assorted sinners are redeemed and become leaders. But not the divorced. Regardless of the circumstances of the divorce, they must sit on the sidelines and stay there.
But even if the divorce happened after salvation, it seems contrary to the ways of Christ to make that a permanent death mark for service. Mark had a gross ministry failure (not moral, but serious nonetheless) that caused Paul not to want to work with him in Acts 15. But later, he lavishes praise on Mark’s service for the gospel. He was restored. David fell and was restored. Peter denied Christ then proclaimed him boldly. God specializes in taking failures and guiding them to success.
What makes divorce worse than any other sin? It seems to me to be contrary to the whole thrust of the gospel to tell people that a sin that happened in the past will forever eliminate them from service in the church.
What about Our Testimony?
Those who restrict the divorced from leadership argue that we must do so to “uphold standards” in the church. Our leaders must be great role models. If we allowed the divorced to lead, doesn’t that tacitly endorse divorce?
If a pastor had premarital sex 25 years ago, and you make him a pastor today, does that promote premarital sex? One of the best deacons I ever had was the town drunk before God got hold of him. Did we promote drunkenness by allowing him to be a deacon? Does a redeemed drug dealer advocate drug dealing with his service to the church? What better testimony can we give to the world than the truth that God can change lives?
If a man in the middle of a divorce were serving, that would be one thing. If we failed to discipline a man who divorced his wife for unbiblical reasons, that would be a bad testimony. But a man who was divorced several years ago, has remarried, and is an exemplary husband and father; there is no shame in that.
What is the church? Is it the society of the spiritually superior? Is it the domain of those who have never failed or done anything wrong? No! The church is the gathering of the redeemed; sinners whose lives were broken by sin and put back together by the grace of God. We are the cleansed, not the unsullied.
What better testimony could there be than a man whose life was shattered by sin, who walked through the brokenness of divorce, and whose life has been redeemed and put back into order by Christ? Does he not tell the sin-broken people who come into a church that there is power in the blood?
So, am I saying that it doesn’t matter how leaders live? To the contrary, I think church leaders should be people of the highest character and spiritual passion. Our lives should be examples of godly behavior. What I am saying is that what matters to God is what we ARE, not what we once were. Leadership is based on character and reputation. God specializes in taking the depraved and infusing his righteousness into them, transforming them to be like Christ. It is maturity in the process of sanctification that matters.
If the church is a “Society of Superior Saints” then by all means, eliminate from service those who have made mistakes in the past. If the church is a hospital for sinners, where people come to find the redemption and remission of sins and have their lives rebuilt by Christ, then we cannot hold peoples’ pasts against them. We cannot eliminate people from service on the basis of who they were ten or twenty years ago. We promote to leadership in the church on the basis of who we have become – our present character and reputation in the church.
My experience (in line, I believe, with God’s Word) tells me that divorced men and women can become shining testimonies of the life-changing power of Christ.
There is no biblical basis on which a general prohibition against divorce men serving as church leaders can be made. It is, to me, an act of “adding to what is written” to do so. Those who want to follow Christ and His Word, and not cultural traditions would do well to exclude only those whom the Bible excludes.



According to your exegesis (especially the part about not adding or taking away from what is written), does this mean then that in order to be a deacon or a pastor you have to be married? Are single men prohibited from serving in either office? Your exegesis is a little lacking in regard to these questions (though, to be fair, I don’t know if your intent was to cover all the implications from that passage).
I’m thinking your conclusion might open the door for some (divorcees) and shut it on others (bachelors).
Dave, by the way, could you send me the compiled document? Thanks.
wencl1440@gmail.com
I am divorced.
The issue is not necessarily how we see it in scripture; it is how the divorce is perceived in leadership. Whoever handles the word of God is its representative within the church structure. I handle the word among those in the world and hope my representation of it points them to Christ. I am not, and will not be, in a leadership position in the church because of what my divorce could excuse others into approving for themselves. Whether my divorce was justifiable, or not, it still affects my testimony in that area. There is a shadow that cannot be removed. If a leader (elder) is handling the word of God, he cannot have a shadow in this area or the other areas mentioned in scripture. This same requirement is seen with the deacon, as well.
The pastor of my church has no children. Scripture is clear about how the elder is to have his home in order and his children in subjection. I see a great imbalance in his life because of this and it affects our children’s area. At least he and his wife should have adopted. There is something about how these things affect the “man” himself. When a man’s entire life corresponds with how God wants us to live he has a confidence (power) about him when presenting the word of God. Can’t explain it, but, his innocence in this area has a power that God seems to use over and above the testimony of one who experiences the divorce. I understand this because of what I believe scripture says and what I have had to go through myself. A leader never leads with a bad testimony, they lead by example. I Peter 5:3
This makes me wonder exactly who are the “eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom” that Christ mentions in Matthew 19:12?
Recall that the Lord says those who can accept this burden should do so. Was He talking about never-married men, or men who divorce and don’t remarry, or what?
Dave:
So much of this issue relates to the interpreation of the scriptures. Some interpret them one way and some interpret them another way. How do we find a healthy balance for the difference in interpretations?
Dave,
For what it is worth, I agree with your analysis of the situation and the passages in question.
I too have heard the old rub about sticking with what the Bible says, inevitably followed by the “fact” that the Bible prohibits all divorce. Well, it doesn’t. In fact, (as Jesus pointed out), the Old testament is quite liberal on th subject, and Jesus did not prohibit all divorce. In fact (as you point out), He explicitly allowed it in cases of porneia (sorry I don’t have Greek characters available). According to BAG, this term can be translated as narrowly as adultery, as widely as “sexual unfaithfulness,” or as figurativly as idolatry. In fact, I find myself wondering if explicit photographic pornegraphy had been available in the Greko-Roman world, and if abuse (even without an explicitly sexual component, as much abuse has a poorly expressed or unarticulated sexual basis) had been as widespread/widely acknowledged then as it is known now, if porneia would have meant that also. But either way: too many people have been sold a bill of goods about an interpretation of Scripture as Scripture itself. This probably goes back to the strain of Baptist life which cast aspersions on the value of education for preachers (even if a given church has educational standards, the liklihood of having some transmitted anti-education bias in Baptist churches in the south and the southwest is pretty high). Not all those who were opposed to education left in the early 1800s to become Primative Baptists!
We crossed this bridge in the new work church I served several years ago. The church finally decided to evaluate candidates for the deaconate on a “case by case basis.” That way, they could evaluate not only when the divorce took place (in the timeline of that person’s Christian walk), but also the circumstances of the divorce and the lifestyle the candidate had lived since then. I was never aware of the fact of a divorce negatively affecting (or “casting a shadow” as one contributor put it) a deacon’s ministry. In fact, one of the strongest and most effective deacons I ever served with had been divorced many many years earlier.
Best to you brother–you will encounter resistance when you try to show people what the Bible actually says, because of an entrenched and ingrained bias. Some people just have a personality that leads them to over-reliance on a written standard (and these folks exist in Christianity as well as in Islam) to the exclusion of the possibility of flexiability in that standard.
John
Dave,
For what it is worth, I agree with your analysis of the situation and the passages in question.
I too have heard the old rub about sticking with what the Bible says, inevitably followed by the “fact” that the Bible prohibits all divorce. Well, it doesn’t. In fact, (as Jesus pointed out), the Old Testament is quite liberal on th subject, and Jesus did not prohibit all divorce. In fact (as you point out), He explicitly allowed it in cases of porneia (sorry I don’t have Greek characters available). According to BAG, this term can be translated as narrowly as adultery, as widely as “sexual unfaithfulness,” or as figurativly as idolatry. In fact, I find myself wondering if explicit photographic pornegraphy had been available in the Greko-Roman world, and if abuse (even without an explicitly sexual component, as much abuse has a poorly expressed or unarticulated sexual basis) had been as widespread/widely acknowledged then as it is known now, if porneia would have meant that also. But either way: too many people have been sold a bill of goods about an interpretation of Scripture as Scripture itself. This probably goes back to the strain of Baptist life which cast aspersions on the value of education for preachers (even if a given church has educational standards, the liklihood of having some transmitted anti-education bias in Baptist churches in the south and the southwest is pretty high). Not all those who were opposed to education left in the early 1800s to become Primative Baptists!
We crossed this bridge in the new work church I served several years ago. The church finally decided to evaluate candidates for the deaconate on a “case by case basis.” That way, they could evaluate not only when the divorce took place (in the timeline of that person’s Christian walk), but also the circumstances of the divorce and the lifestyle the candidate had lived since then. I was never aware of the fact of a divorce negatively affecting (or “casting a shadow” as one contributor put it) a deacon’s ministry. In fact, one of the strongest and most effective deacons I ever served with had been divorced many many years earlier. We use the same standard at the church I now serve, and are comfortable with it.
Best to you brother–you will encounter resistance when you try to show people what the Bible actually says, because of an entrenched and ingrained bias. Some people just have a personality that leads them to over-reliance on a written standard (and these folks exist in Christianity as well as in Islam) to the exclusion of the possibility of flexiability in that standard.
John
“Aión” – is the Greek word for never…
“Apostasion” – is the Greek word for divorced…
“Aión Apostasion” is not what Paul actually said now is it?
So if the Holy Spirit meant to communicate “Never Divorced” then why did he not cause Paul to write “Aión Apostasion”? This whole issue strikes at the core of our doctrine of the Bible. Is it actually “Inerrant” and “Sufficient” to address every issue of life and faith? If you accept the Word of God as authoritative then you must not add to it by imposing meanings upon the text that, no matter how deeply engrained in our traditions, are not actually in the text. Because… if Paul can’t get such a simple thing as “Never Divorced” right then what else did he get wrong?
Grace Always,
Andrew,
I have actually been in discussions such as you mentioned – does the “one-woman man” statement necessitate marriage and eliminate single folks?
It seems to me that the focus here is directed at one side of the equation, not the other. Since Paul’s discussion in 1 Corinthians 7 praises the advantageous nature of being single, it seems unlikely that Paul meant one-woman man to be a command that only married folks serve. But it is an interesting discussion nonetheless.
Bruce,
You said, “Whether my divorce was justifiable, or not, it still affects my testimony in that area. There is a shadow that cannot be removed. If a leader (elder) is handling the word of God, he cannot have a shadow in this area or the other areas mentioned in scripture.”
I appreciate your conviction and your concern with the reputation of the church. That is admirable and godly.
But I do not agree that any sin is a “shadow that cannot be removed.” I think that is exactly what Christ’s grace does over time – it removes the shadowy effects of sin.
On the other hand, you should always follow your convictions, not mine.
God bless you in your service to Him.
Dave,
I’m surprised you haven’t had any discussions on the singleness issue before. Some argue that single guys (or even married guys without children) can’t be pastors because they do not have the experience or the ability to identify as readily with the congregation. Maybe I just went to a really traditional church when I was a kid. Perhaps it will give you something else to think about. Maybe not. Anyways…
I think this issue should be (and most likely is) decided by the local church. I’ve been in churches where any divorce proved a disqualification. I’ve been in others where divorce prior to conversion was not considered. Ultimately each congregation is going to have to decide how to interpret those verses.
Bruce does have a good point that shouldn’t be ignored: leaders have to lead by example. The after effects of divorce more often than not conflict with the other qualifications of an elder (above reproach, self-controlled, respectable, not quarrelsome, managing his household well, good reputation among outsiders). If there are children involved and multiple families, the part about managing the household and having the children under control would likely be challenging to maintain (indeed, it is hard enough for people with unbroken famlies to maintain).
I think another thing that Bruce pointed out is that divorce tends to stick with you. There may be kids. There may be monthly payments. There could be a poor reputation. There is plenty in the 1 Timothy passage to disqualify any person seeking the pastorate. And more people (not just divorcees) should be disqualified. Not because they are bad or because only the “Superior Saints” can serve, but because that calling is a high calling.
Brothers, I totally disagree with putting people down because of past sins and behaviors, but I also believe that the calling to serve as a pastor or deacon are high callings. Am I of the persuasion that all divorced people can’t serve in either of those positions? Not necessarily, but I do believe that the “irremovable shadow” of divorce will almost certainly disqualify candidates to those positions because of the other qualifications Paul lays out. If you can’t see a divorced person having issues with any of these qualifications (above reproach, self-controlled, respectable, not quarrelsome, managing his household well, good reputation among outsiders) just because they are divorced, then you need to ask someone who’s divorced, “What are all the negative consequences you’ve experienced as a result of your divorce?” and see if they list some of those things. Even if it was a justifiable divorce, it could still leave the person with an unmanageable household (like rebellious children) and a bad reputation among outsiders (which should disqualify them).
I appreciate Dave’s and John’s desire to protect and care for the divorced among us because they need to be treated with love and respect, but I think we should give leeway to those who practice a prohibition (either total or in part)of divorcees in leadership unless there’s only one possible interpretation of those passages.
Patrick, Good question. I have always assumed that the eunuchs for the kingdom are those who choose to remain single for the sake of kingdom work – whether always single, widowed or perhaps divorced.
Never have put a lot of study into that passage, but would love to hear someone else’s take.
Just for clarity’s sake, my last sentence was rhetorical. I think the passage could be interpreted more than one way.
Andrew, I don’t know if I was clear, but I HAVE been in discussions like that. In Cedar Rapids, one of my best friends is a single guy and we had discussions about that (he has served well as a deacon for several years).
Sorry Dave. I got to reading too quickly again.
I agree with that, Andrew, that there are different ways to interpret this passage. My point is that unless this passage clearly excludes ALL divorced men from service, we should not do so. I think the burden of proof would be on those who give a blanket restriction. We should only exclude all divorcees if that is a clear command of scripture.
Tom, that’s a good question – I think we have tried to address it, but it is always a quandary.
John, a good comment – worth reading twice!
Greg, thank you for that. It is a wise and helpful comment – primarily because it agrees with me and buttresses my arguments!
Thanks for your kind words, Dave. I wish my conscience was not so affected by my conviction. Basically, my conviction about anything within Christiandom is based upon “what is best”. That may be what I have trouble balancing.
One thing I do now is to exemplify in my life, along with how I work in the body of Christ, a service as though I had never been divorced. I believe God expects out of me the same kind of lifestyle He expects out of an elder or a deacon only without the title. Investing all available time and energy into God’s service is important to me. I find that many deacons and some elders, though qualified, only serve at minimum capacity, if any. We need more lay-people to simply do whatever needs to be done. In a way, it releives me of the leadership responsibility to serve with a clear conscience.
Bruce, I appreciate your spirit.
Sorry ’bout that–I hit enter and didn’t think it “went” anywhere, so I hit it again (after making a minor grammatical change).
John
I think another issue to review (aside from proper exegetical understanding of the passages) that influences our exegetical understanding of the passages is the influence of traditional American culture (where divorce was looked at negatively and wasn’t as common) and modern American culture (where divorce is looked at impassively and is common). Then think about the relative commonality withing our churches.
How many of you have heard preachers speak against homosexuality as destroying the family and the marriage institution yet they remain mum on the negative impact and general sinfullness of divorce when it comes to destroying the family and the marriage institution?
Careful now, Andrew. You’re about to quit preachin’ and start meddlin’!
John
I’m pretty sure we heterosexuals were doing a pretty good job of destroying the American home before the homosexuals got involved.
Part of the Biblical teaching about divorced men not being Pastors nor Deacons has to do with the example of one man with one woman for life…which is what God’s design for marriage was supposed to be.
Also, I know of a man, who has been married 4 times…three times divorced. The women all left him…wanted out of the marriage. Therefore, he says that they left him, therefore he should still be a Pastor. What say ye? Is he a one woman man, or not? And, if you think that he has been divorced too many times, then what Scripture can you give for him not being a Pastor?
David
Again, David, I maintain that leadership in the body of Christ is a manifestation of spiritual maturity demonstrated over time.
I am not advocating that we ignore divorce or that it doesn’t matter. I am just saying like any sin, it is redeemable.
If I divorced, I would expect my churc to remove me as pastor, even if I were the “innocent” party.
But, over time, I could rebuild the character, the reputation, the integrity needed to be a leader.
A repeated pattern of divorce such as you mentioned would pretty obviously be an indicator of a character problem. He may not have left his wives, but if three have left him, it is a sign of a pattern of spiritual trouble.
Should we exclude someone from ministry (as pastor or deacon) if they committed premarital sex in the past?
Should we exclude someone from ministry if they did drugs or were drunks in the past?
Should we exclude someone from ministry if they have a criminal history?
I say no to all of these. If they have been redeemed, forgiven and renewed, we give people with all these sins the opportunity to demonstrate character and leadership.
Why, then, would we even consider excluding from service someone who was divorced 15 years ago, was forgiven, and has demonstrated growth, integrity and Christian character worth emulating for well over a decade?
One thing that examples such as the one you bring up, David, indicate is that all divorces are not alike. When we make blanket policies, we are by definition going to end up with conundrums, inconsistencies.
Let me approach it a different way.
What better example of the grace and power of Christ could there be than a person who has made mistakes, and experienced the redemptive and transformational power of Christ to rebuild what sin has broken?
What message does it send if we tell people that their mistakes (even sins) are fatal as far as church leadership goes?
Dave Miller:
It was said in comment #24 –”Part of the Biblical teaching about divorced men not being Pastors nor Deacons has to do with the example of one man with one woman for life…which is what God’s design for marriage was supposed to be.”
I do not think it is that cut and dry. It appears to me that some will not allow for a different interpretation of scripture other than to the one they hold to.
It is one of the reason there are so many divisions in the SBC.
Interesting story, Tom.
My dad was a key leader on the Foreign Mission Board back in the latter days of Keith Parks’ tenure there. It was a pretty politically divided time.
The topic of whether divorced folks should be allowed to serve as missionaries became a topic of debate. Dad said it was interesting how this subject divided the room. You might think that the conservatives and the moderates would line up against each other on this one. Not so. The conservatives divided – some for the divorce prohibition, others wanting to change it. The moderate side was also pretty split – some for, some against. It doesn’t seem that this issue was a political issue.
I do not agree with you that this discussion is a political issue. Don’t try to make everything an us-vs-them, anti-SBC conservative thing. there are times when I sympathize with your positiion (though I usually disagree) but I think you are trying to make a mountain appear from a molehill here.
David M:
Were did I even mention politics in my comment?
Dave,
What you’ve said has resonated with me. I’ll make an observation as a missionary: our problem is we tend to let the culture interpret the Scripture instead of the other way around.
In America the divorce rate in the church is (last time I heard) not any different than outside the church. Too many Christians have just accepted the “it just didn’t work out” as an acceptable excuse for divorce.
I live in the Philippines, where there is no divorce (only annulment). It is frowned on and looked at so legalistically that some Christians give terrible advice–such as telling women to stay with a guy who is committing adultery and refusing to repent.
Marriage was intended to be a lifelong covenant. But covenants can be broken, and it only takes one person to break a covenant.
I work with a guy in ministry who is divorced and now remarried. He tried to save his first marriage, but finally agreed to sign divorce papers once he learned she was pregnant by another man.
He is remarried, and he treats his wife and family as a man should. I have no problem working with him.
If I could toss my in two cents (it’s worth even less in our Canadian currency) to the discussion and to David Volfan’s question, “What scripture can you give him for not being a pastor?” Two biblical principles come to mind.
One, the biblical principle that a man’s family life is a demonstration of his personal character (1 Tim 3:4-5). This text specifically speaks of his “management” of his children, but the principle is that his leadership in his household demonstrates his leadership ability of God’s people. If you want to see what kind of leader he would be of God’s people, look at the indicator of his family life.
Second, Jesus states that divorce takes place because of “hardness of heart” (Matt 19:8) — another word for that is “sin.” Seldom, if ever, does a marriage fall apart where both sides don’t need to own up to some sort of shortcoming. Divorce is a pretty definite indicator that something is wrong in the relationship. Biblically, there is only one remedy for sin — repentance. I would say that a man who has already experienced three divorces and blames all the failures on the respective wives, has refused to acknowledge his own deficiencies as a loving husband. He has a lot to learn about sacrificial love (Eph 5:25) and leading others to grow in holiness (Eph 5:26-28). Such is the quality of his spiritual leadership. Again, his home life is an indicator of his fitness to lead God’s people (1 Tim 3:5).
Tom, by politics, I meant your this-is-another-evidence-that-the-CR-was-bad perspective.
You said, “It is one of the reason there are so many divisions in the SBC.”
I would call that political. If I misread your intent, please either clarify or accept my apology.
Let me also add that divorce by no means is the unpardonable sin. Someone who has truly repented and demonstrated fruits of repentance can be given a new start. The sin can be forgiven at the moment of repentance, but godly character may take longer to develop.
Kevin, you identified one of our common and biggest problems. You said, “I’ll make an observation as a missionary: our problem is we tend to let the culture interpret the Scripture instead of the other way around.”
Amen, and lets stop it!
I have some good friends from the Philippines. Bill and Lyn Hyde were Iowans. I had the privilege of preaching at Bill’s funeral aftr he was killed by terrorists in Davao. Lyn was here during Lottie Moon. If all our missionaries are of that caliber, we are in good shape.
Kevin, we do not always expect that kind of wisdom to come out of Canada.
Sorry, sometimes I just can’t help myself.
Dave M:
You said to me–”Tom, by politics, I meant your this-is-another-evidence-that-the-CR-was-bad perspective.
You said, “It is one of the reason there are so many divisions in the SBC.”
I would call that political. If I misread your intent, please either clarify or accept my apology.”
I did not even mention the CR. I was simply trying to say the issue of divorced men being considered for leadership was another area that continues to cause division in the SBC.
Thank you for the clarification. Again, I apologize if I misread your intent.
Do you have to be a deacon to do the work of a deacon? What is the purpose of the position and what does it represent?
I ask that because I find that what I do within the church frequently exceeds what most of the deacons do. I even know more scripture than most and lead my family like God’s word would have me to. The thing is, I do not really have a desire for that office or position. I want to do whatever is needed; paint, clean, fill tea glasses, teach, nursery, kitchen, witness, choir, widows, etc. This is not bragging (even though I’m from Texas and have the right), it is what comes naturally from the relationship I have with God. It simply pours out of me and my wife and family. Maybe, I think if I was a deacon I would feel that I HAD to do these things.
I don’t see how forgiveness factors in with the qualifications of a pastor. Sin is something we should be able to control. Gender is not, yet we find it so easy to withhold the office of pastor from a woman and we trip up over a divorced man. I oppose having women “teach and exercise authority over a man.” Although I personally could agree with looking into the circumstances of a man’s divorce (before conversion, just cause, etc.), I can also agree with a church deciding not to consider divorced applicants.
I get how important it is to recognize that we’ve all fallen and are all equally guilty before God until we are saved and he imputes Christ’s righteousness in us. I get that. But I do believe there are sins that can prohibit us from certain ministries for life.
A friend of mine from high school assaulted a female college student and was sentenced to 10 years in prison (he’s still there) for “assault with intent to commit sexual penetration.” I don’t honestly believe that his repentance and living a godly life in keeping with repentance could somehow make him eligible to work in a children’s or youth ministry in the future. Why? Because of the issues of trust, respect, and reputation. Does this mean he can’t serve in other capacities? No. Does this mean that he is a “lesser brother”? No. But neither does it mean that repentance and a godly life can somehow restore him to a position of leadership and trust. Could you conscionably place an ex-pedophile in a classroom of children?
I can serve with a brother who was a practicing homosexual before he came to Christ, but I can’t accept a blood transfusion from him. That’s not to say that he’s a “bad” person, but that his life will forever be scarred by his past sins. Neither you nor I will ever be fully “cleansed” of all sin until we are cleansed of its presence–in the presence of Almighty God. Some consequences are lifelong.
I believe that both the offices of pastor and deacon are high offices, and we should be very careful who we put in those offices. A church that doesn’t want to consider divorced people is within its rights as a church and has an arguable interpretation to support it. A church that does want to consider the circumstance of a divorce is within its rights as a church and has an arguable interpretation to support it.
I just don’t think the former should impose its views on the latter nor should the latter impose its views on the former. That’s my argument.
Brother Andrew,
A few questions to consider:
1. Would it be okay for a business-owner or manager who had a reputation for abusing his authority and ruling over his employees to be in leadership if he has repented and lived out a life of love and service since?
2. Would it be okay for a former rock star who had a reputation for being full of pride and vanity and loving the spotlight to lead worship services if he has repented and lived out a life of humility and grace since?
3. Would it be okay for a man who had a reputation for attempting to destroy God’s Church to plant churches if he repented and lived out a life of service to God and His Church since?
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
Bruce,
I think you should continue doing what you’re doing because you enjoy it and you have convictions that you shouldn’t hold that office. At the risk of adding/taking away from the word of God, I offer you this personalized version of 1 Tim 4:12, “Let no one despise you for your [past divorce], but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.” Don’t worry about holding an office as much as setting an example if you don’t feel called to be in that role. (Even if you do feel called, be more concerned with setting an example.)
Deacons are to be servants within the church. Their primary focus should be on aiding the members of the church, though their office is not limited to service to Christians. They are also responsible for providing spiritual service and guidance and some churches have each deacon responsible for a group of families or some other grouping within the church. I’d suggest you check out a few commentaries and church constitutions to get a view of how churches view the office. Your own church’s constitution would probably give you a good idea of what is expected of a deacon in your neck of the woods.
Brother FTME,
I appreciate the questions and examples as they make you think about a subject from a different angle. Your questions are helpful in considering applicants on a case-by-case basis, but they are examples removed enough from the topic at hand so as to be more of an “apples to oranges” comparison than an “apples to apples” one. Committees argue over these specifics, like you mentioned in your questions, all the time because they relate to the individual qualifications. I personally would like to know the specifics of a divorce situation before disqualifying someone (I lean more towards David Miller’s views on that point), but I agree with a church that decides to not consider divorcees.
For me it’s no different than a church that prohibits imbibers from serving in leadership positions. No one here is arguing that point. If the principle is “what is God’s standard and not man’s cultural views,” I wonder why more of you who believe divorcees can serve as pastors and deacons don’t take offense to churches that prohibit imbibers from serving in these positions. I personally view that as a double standard.
These issues you’ve brought up relate to the other qualifications (above reproach, self-controlled, respectable, not quarrelsome, managing his household well, good reputation among outsiders) and naturally would require a case-by-case evaluation. Different churches and people will have differing opinions on the way in which an applicant should be disconnected from past behaviors and attitudes. It really should be left up to the church because a lot of these processes are going to be subjective. That’s why we pray for God’s will in choosing a leader (or recognizing the one He has provided). Remember, I am not against divorcees in general from serving in the church in various capacities, but I am for church autonomy in deciding whether or not they can be deacons or elders.
Key word here is “had.” If he has earned a new reputation of love and service, the old is no longer the idea most people have about him, and he actually is a humble servant-leader living a life of love and service, he probably would be qualified in this respect. That isn’t to say that he wouldn’t be disqualified for some other part of his life. And your example doesn’t give a time frame on how long it’s been since he was like this. Again, this is just my viewpoint and someone else could come to another conclusion.
For the sake of brevity (which my post is not an example of), my answer here would be similar to the first one.
Sounds an awful lot like someone whose name starts with a “P.” My answer would be like the first two.
Please forgive me if I missed something or left an incomplete thought. I’m working fast here.
Andrew, I appreciate the forthrightness and gentle spirit with which you argue your position.
But I would argue that forgiveness has EVERYTHING to do with leadership.
If you look at the qualifications of a deacon or elder, you could argue that each pastor and church leader has probably violated each of them at some point in his life. If it were not for forgiveness, none of us would be qualified to serve.
The requirements for a deacon involve what a man IS, not what he used to be. They are standards of maturity we grow toward.
When we are vetting deacons, do we say, “You must not only reach these standards, but you must have ALWAYS reached these standards, even in your early 20′s. If you ever violated any of these standards in any way at any point in your life, you are disqualified.”
Of course we do not do that. We recognize that sinners, redeemed by Christ, grow in his image and likeness over time. We judge what they are now, what they have become in Christ.
It is only with the divorce standard (which I don’t think is biblical anyway) that we tell people – you must be married to one woman now, and have never been married to anyone else in all your life.
We apply a different standard to divorce than to other sins.
Forgiveness is fundamental to Christianity. We are sinners, forgiven and in a process of transformation. We do not demand leaders who have never sinned (except for our ultimate Lord), but we demand leaders who are farther down the process of transformation than we are so that they can lead us.
What they were at the start of the process is not what matters. What they have become during the process of transformation is what matters.
Dave,
I’m met Lyn Hyde before–great woman of God.
That was supposed to say I’VE met . . .
At the risk of running this thing in circles, I have a few affirmations and final points to ponder.
First, I want to affirm that forgiveness is what gives all Christians a clean slate, not only at conversion, but also whenever we confess our sins because God is “faithful and just to forgive us our sins.” This promise is one of the greatest afforded to those who believe.
Second, I believe that the phrase, “a one-woman man” could easily be interpreted a number of ways. While I believe that a divorce should be thoroughly reviewed for its impact on the other qualifications and that most divorces at least would have disqualified the person at the time for an extended period of time, I don’t personally believe that divorce in and of itself disqualifies a person forever.
Third, I can accept a church that prohibits divorced people from serving in the pastorate/deaconate the same way that I can accept a church that prohibits people who drink alcohol moderately from serving in those positions. If one prohibition is unacceptable for a church to require, then the other should be as well.
Fourth, I admit that I am young and inexperienced in the world and in the ministry and may change my mind about the last sentence in point three. I graciously accept your critiques of my posts as they help me grow and learn God’s word.
Dave and FTME, thanks for debating me and helping me clarify my views. Do you think they are all that controversial? I honestly don’t think that I am all that far off from what you’re saying, I just think it should be up to the church to decide.
People can be forgiven of divorce…of course. But, forgiveness really has nothing to do with the qualifications of being a Pastor or a Deacon.
A drunk can be driving and hit a tree and lose his leg in the wreck. He can certainly be forgiven for his drunkeness, but he cannot grow his leg back. The leg’s gone. His heart is forgiven…yes…but the leg is still gone.
I really think that the phrase “one woman man” means “one woman man.” And, while I can understand someone believing that the phrase just means “faithful to his wife,” I still cant get beyond “ONE.” One means one…does it not?
And, again, if the man is divorced and remarried, then he has committed himself to two women in his life…til death…not just one. And, the example that a Pastor and Deacon should be is gone. One woman for one man for life…til death parts them.
David
I have a couple of scriptures for someone to help explain for me.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
1Cr 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
When it says “one flesh” it has a meaning. I can understand it from a divorced standpoint because I still sense a connection. The children are our concern “together” and other things come into play, as well. For those of you who have not been divorced, you cannot comprehend what I am talking about. I need another perspective if you will. Thanks.
Bruce,
The deaconate is a calling, as surely as is the pastorate, or any other ministry. One may be qualified to serve as a deacon, but not have the call to be a deacon, just as one may be qualified to serve a sa pastor, chairman of the hospitality committee, or member of the clean-up committee–and yet not be call to any of those ministries. Without meaning any offense, it sounds to me as though you may be confusing call and qualification; or perhaps your church has failed to clarify them.
John
007:
You said–”People can be forgiven of divorce…of course. But, forgiveness really has nothing to do with the qualifications of being a Pastor or a Deacon.”
I guess that really means if your wife were to ever divorce you, regardless of the circumstances, you would resign your pastorate without being asked to. Is that what you are saying?
It is always black and white for you, even where it is not black and white. Particularly where it does not effect you.
Pitiful.
John Fariss,
Thanks for responding. I know the bishop is called per I Tim. 3:1, however, where it says “likewise” in verse 8 is that including verse 1? Don’t mean to be so specific, however, most deacons are selected by the church in East Texas. I just didn’t know that position was a calling. Any other verses that support that?
bruce,
I’ll be glad to look up for you, as soon as I have the time. And deacons are selected the same way on the east coast, BTW, but that does not make a deacon less of a calling.
In the meantime, I will just share with you that historically in Baptist life, the call to a ministry position (including the deaconate) is (1) by the supernatural call of God, when a person percieves that God is calling to a specific ministry; (2) through a person recognizing that he/she is equipped and gifted for a certain ministry AND is comfortable with the conclusion, even without a supernatural sense of call; (3) by the congregation affirming the person’s recognition of his/her call, however it may come. Seems to me that is exactly what a congregation does when they “elect” a deacon. It is thus less of a “reward” for having gifts and more of an acknowledgement that God has called the person to that ministry.
John
Tom,
Divorced people can serve in many areas of the Church. They can teach SS and DT. They can serve on Youth committees and sing in the choir. Divorced men can still preach and teach the Bible in revival meetings, supply preaching, etc. But, a Pastor and a Deacon have certain qualifications that should be met.
If my wife left me today, I would resign as Pastor tomorrow.
David
I can live with that. The replacement of Judas was similar. Thank you for your insight.
Vol,
If the divorce took place on biblical grounds, the marriage is over and he is free to remarry. Therefore, in the eyes of God, the man is married to one woman and one only.
I think we make blanket statements on very shaky exegetical grounds.
It is amazing how subtle the biblical teaching on divorce is, much less dogmatic than most of us try to make it.
For the exegesis for that statement, just look at the links above.
Tom, I do not agree with David’s statement above, and I cannot see how he distinguishes supply preaching from pastoring. He is way more dogmatic than I believe is justified by scripture.
He’s a Tennessee Volunteers fan – what do you expect?
However, if my wife left me, I would resign my church. Even if I was the “innocent” party, it would be hard to believe that I did not fail in some way in my trust and duty as a husband.
I also would think it would be hard for me to minister through the woundedness I would feel at that time.
However, I do not think that divorce would forever eliminate me from service. After the divorce, as God’s healing and transformational process continued, I believe I could be restored to ministry – in time. How long? Who knows!
If a deacon in our church were going through a divorce, I would ask them to release their position for a time. I would not eliminate them forever from service.
007,
I recall Charles Stanley going through a problem with his wife. I did not have direct information for that but I believe the church did work closely with him and her to resolve and reconsile. I really do not have any additional information on it except I know he didn’t resign and leave. I think I know what you mean, though.
David W, I would love to hear you answer this question for me.
Your logic, if I understand it, for restricting a divorced man from service is that he is married, in God’s eyes, to two women at one time. Right?
Wouldn’t that make him guilty of ongoing adultery?
If he is adulterous, shouldn’t he be eliminated not only from leadership, but also from membership? How can you say that his adulterous marriage eliminates him from leadership but does not exclude him from membership?
If a divorced man does not remarry, he would be the husband of only one wife, would he be eligible?
Dave,
If the man divorces his wife on Scriptural grounds…due to adultery…then he is, of course, free to remarry, but only in the Lord. But still, the consequences of a divorce hold true. IOW, he would not be in a state of continuing adultery, and he would not have two wives; but he would not be a “one woman man who rules his own house well.”
His marriage was destroyed. He is married to another woman. The example is gone.
David
Dave,
If the man divorces his wife on Scriptural grounds…due to adultery…then he is, of course, free to remarry, but only in the Lord. But still, the consequences of a divorce hold true. IOW, he would not be in a state of continuing adultery, and he would not have two wives; but he would not be a “one woman man who rules his own house well.”
His marriage was destroyed. He is married to another woman. The example to the Church of marriage is gone.
David
Do you have any scriptural references to support that? I just don’t see where you are coming up with these distinctions.
And you completely ignored my shot about the Tennessee Volunteers, which hurt my feelings.
Dave,
We Vol fans have to overlook all the jealous people out there. After all, we wear the true orange and white, and we are just…well… we have a high standard…let’s put it that way. So, we realize that people in other parts of the world will naturally be jealous. We’ve learned to live with it.
David
lol
Yes, Lane Kiffin has definitely demonstrated how high the standards are…
Dave,
It is absolutely pouring down rain here where I live..at this moment. It’s rainin’ cats and dogs.
Anyway, the Scriptures that I refer to in my comment are the Scriptures that deal with divorce and remarriage, and the ones that deal with the qualifications of the Pastor and a Deacon.
Are you gonna make me take the time to look all of these up?
David
Hey, Lane Kiffin is a dear, sweet man.
David
007:
You said–”Anyway, the Scriptures that I refer to in my comment are the Scriptures that deal with divorce and remarriage, and the ones that deal with the qualifications of the Pastor and a Deacon.
Are you gonna make me take the time to look all of these up?
David”
Awh come on please take the time to look up all of the scriptures and share them with all of us or we will just have to take your word on these matters. I for one prefer the scriptures, not just what 007 says the scriptures say.
007:
You said to me–”Divorced people can serve in many areas of the Church. They can teach SS and DT. They can serve on Youth committees and sing in the choir. Divorced men can still preach and teach the Bible in revival meetings, supply preaching, etc.”
Scriptures please to support your above comment. I contend they do not exist. Please, prove me wrong.
Brother Andrew,
I have no beef with your conclusions and appreciate your willingness to consider different perspectives in light of Holy Scripture. I do think David M hit the nail on the head when he said, “The requirements for a deacon involve what a man IS, not what he used to be.”
One more fun marriage question to consider is: What do you counsel a man married to more than one wife to do when he comes to faith in Jesus? Obviously a cross-cultural question, but worth considering for folks like me!
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
FTME,
I actually faced this on a mission trip to Tanzania years ago. Polygamist men got saved. If they sent away their wives to get down to one wife, the women had little choice culturally but to turn to prostitution to make a living.
It is a difficult thing. The general solution was to allow polygamists into the church, but not to let them be pastors or other key leadership positions.
Tough one, brother.
When we discuss these issues, there always seem to be more questions than there are answers.
Brother David (007),
Your position that a man has to have been a “one woman man” for his entire life brings up some additional questions in my mind:
1. Does the qualification of a “one woman man” for life disqualify someone who has had a live-in girlfriend?
2. How about a common-law wife – no ceremony performed?
3. What about those who have committed fornication in the past… I do not think they could be considered “one woman men” for lifeunless there was only one woman, right?
4. What about men who had an addiction to pornography in the past. As our Lord said lust is equivalent to committing adultery in God’s Kingdom. Are they disqualified as well?
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
Brother Dave M,
Guess I just proved your point from #72!
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
Perhaps I’m missing something. Even if I agreed that someone divorced and remarried is unfit for pastoral service (I don’t), how are you making the case that simply being divorced makes one unfit for pastoral service?
Can someone show me the scripture that disqualifies divorced, single men from service?
FTME,
It’s talking about marriage…not girlfriends, or one night stands from years ago. A one woman man…a man who committed himself to one woman in marriage for life. I believe it’s talking about a man who has entered into the marriage covenant.
David
Brother David (007),
First, I would encourage you to consider the act of sex and its relationship to marriage. I do not think you can really separate the concept of being one flesh from the sex act. The intimacy shared in the act itself is the cutting of covenant. This is the reason so many young (and old) people go around with significant emotional baggage from premarital sex and pornography… they have, in a sense, bound themselves to others.
Second, when you say,
it sounds like you are saying that the man’s intention is what is significant. This opens up a whole new can of worms as I dare say that few of today’s grooms believe what they are doing at their wedding ceremonies is what you describe above. If it is not intent-based, but you mean that the marriage ceremony itself is what binds them to life with a woman… I would disagree and say, rather, it is the most intimate act in God’s creation that binds them… whether they be married or not.
Just something(s) to think about…
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
Count me in the group who believe divorced men are disqualified from the pastorate. A pastor should be the husband of one wife – the phrase here is literally understood as… “A one woman man.” That is not one woman at a time… it is one woman as Christ explained marriage (one man and one woman for life). He must be faithful to his wife. A divorced man is disqualified, not because he is a “second-class” Christian… but because this position requires a man be an example to the flock. No man who has broken the public covenant of marriage should be a Pastor. A possible Pastor should be above reproach – an accusation of sin won’t stick to him… he is blameless. Now, blameless does not mean sinless… if sinless were the requirement we wouldn’t have any Pastors. What we are talking about is a standard.
My only question, Joe, is why we do not apply such a strict standard to other sins.
Joe White:
You said:” A pastor should be the husband of one wife – the phrase here is literally understood as… “A one woman man.”
How do you know this is literally understood as “A one woman man.”
Scripture please.
Does this mean a single man can not be a Pastor?
Scripture please.
Bill,
I understand the logic, even if I do not agree with it. A man who is divorced and remarried is, supposedly, in the eyes of God, married to two women (his current wife and his former wife).
I do not believe that is an accurate understanding of scripture, but that is the logic usually applied.
I would still love to hear an answer to some questions I have raised which have not been addressed, by those who hold to these views.
1) If a man divorces and does not remarry, he is still the husband of one wife, right?
2) If a man who remarries after a divorce is, in the eyes of God, married to two women, does that not make him an adulterer? Jesus said as much, if you take that view.
Such a man should be put out of the church, not just withheld from leadership. On what basis do we accept him into the church but restrict him from leadership?
3) Why do we treat divorce differently than we treat other sins?
And, my compliments to all for a lively but collegial discussion, even where we disagree.
Dave M:
I take notice that 007 and Joe White do not appear to have the Scriptures to support their position as they could easily have posted them with their comments. I contend they do not have these scriptures.
Tom, I think I understand the biblical basis for their view. I just disagree with their interpretation and application of scripture.
Dave M:
I do not understand their biblical basis for their view other than it appears they interpret scripture to support their view of the issue. I see this also in their abstinence view. I do not see how they reach their conclusions in a sound biblical fashion.
Tom,
Joe and I are showing you one of the Scriptures as we tell you that the Pastor should be a “one woman man.” That is the passage that is being talked about. So, what in the world do you mean by show me the Scripture? Do you want us come over to your house and take out a Bible and actually make sure that your eyeballs are looking at the Scripture?
Goodness gracious!
David
007:
What scripture verse are you quoting? If it is the one I think it is it does not literally say “one woman man.” That is your interpretation. I ask again show me the Scripture–Chapter and verse.
It does not literally exist.
Dave,
You can certainly guarantee that people will comment on topics such as this one! Good job at stirring up conversation.
I have one question: Do you have any exegetical evidence to offer in support of your theory about the significance of “one-woman man”? Any examples of that phrase being used in the sense you suggest in classical Greek literature? Other koine sources? Old Testament Hebrew phrases rendered by the phrase “one-woman man” in the Septuagint? Any evidence of Apostolic Fathers or Patristic sources commenting upon the phrase to have this kind of significance?
Tom,
Does husband of one wife… equal… a one woman man?… Yes.
While you maintain that this is just “my interpretation” of the verse (1 Timothy 3:2), I believe it is the clear meaning. In fact, if we let Scripture interpret Scripture (staying even in the same book) we logically come to this conclusion. I maintain that just as in 1 Timothy 5:9 where the “wife of one man,” implies a woman married but once; so too “husband of one wife” here must mean the same. For although the Jews practiced polygamy; Paul is writing as to a Gentile Church. Polygamy was never allowed in these areas. The candidate for Shepherd of a local flockwas better to have been married only once. Early church councils (such as the Council of Laodicea) and the apostolic canons disapproved of second marriages, especially in the case of candidates for ordination.
As for single men in the pastorate. I believe it is implied here also, that he who has a wife and family is to be preferred to a single man. A pastor who has a family and domestic duties is more attractive to those who have similar ties. A married man with a family teaches them by word and by example.
Dave,
You asked me… “why we do not apply such a strict standard to other sins.”
Good question.
First, I would say that the strict standard is God’s; and He is able to do as He pleases. He wrote the book and the rules, and we find this standard in both 1 Timothy and Titus.
Secondly, I think we do great harm to this standard when we magnify this qualification above the others. There is a long list of qualifications given. Some people have the idea that to be a Pastor or Deacon the ONLY qualification is to be married one time. Churches go wrong when they act in this fashion.
Third, this Scripture (along with the teaching of Christ in Matthew 19)… implies that the marriage covenant is something that God takes very seriously. Someone who breaks public vows to the Lord and his wife is disqualified from leading God’s flock.
Lastly, let me say that I would love to change this passage. I know of some really good men who messed up early in life; who I think would make great Pastors or Deacons! However, it is not for me to write or rewrite Scripture, only to read and heed it.
Bart – the exegetical basis of this post is found in the series I linked to above. I have to admit I did not research the apostoloic fathers or Patristic sources a lot.
I will also tell you this – my purpose in writing this was not to “stir up comments” as you seem to insinuate.
This is a very real issue in my ministry. As I said above, I had a lengthy discussion with my church leaders, and so engage in a study of the Bible on the subject.
I may not have your scholarly abilities, Bart, but I did the best I could, because I cared about trying to identify what the Bible says about this issue.
By the way, do you have exegetical evidence that “one-woman man” specifically refers to “never divorced.” I actually respect your scholarship and would be interested in your perspective.
Joe, you advocate your position well, and I appreciate the way you engaged here.
We’ve probably stated our positions enough and I will not restate here.
I will only respond with this: Make sure that the standard you are applying is really God’s. My study leads me to think that you are not applying God’s standard here, but one based on traditional understanding.
That is not meant to be a put-down in any way. I just think the dogmatism of those who hold your position is not warranted by scripture.
Of course, I have yet to research patristic sources…
Again, I do not agree with Tom’s assesment here. I believe you have given your exegetical basis, even if I disagree with your conclusions. Thank you.
After looking at an online interlinear Bible (no, not Wikipedia
, I saw the phrase (translated literally) was “to be of one woman/wife man/husband.” It could be translated “to be a man of one woman” or “to be the husband of one wife.” The greek words have been used both ways, but the words here were more common (correct me if I’m wrong) for the husband/wife meaning. So Tom, yes, it can be translated a “one-woman man.” The rest of us haven’t been
.
arguingcollegially discussing that point, but rather how to apply that point (Dave, I love that phrase and you rock my socks offI think there is considerable support for the prohibitionist position (of which I am not a part). Paul never specifically says, “Women shouldn’t be elders,” but we believe that is a correct application (and even interpretation) of Paul’s teaching in the other 1 Timothy passage. Just because Paul didn’t say, “Divorced men can’t be elders,” doesn’t mean that couln’t be the correct understanding of the passage.
As I said before, I liken the prohibition of divorced men from serving in those positions to the prohibition of moderate imbibers from ministerial positions–an extrabiblical practice. That’s why I won’t say, “You can’t do that.” I would love for divorced men to get more consideration than they get in most churches, but the fact of the matter is that many will not meet the other requirements (few men do), and many won’t meet those requirements because of some ill effect from their divorce (managing one’s household well, good reputation among outsiders, etc.).
Few of us would argue that at least some things can disqualify us from some ministries forever, such as a convicted child molester who wanted to serve in the children’s ministry of your church (they’d certainly be prevented from working in a secular day care). Everyone who lives a life in accordance with repentence and faith should be accepted by the brethren, but not necessarily for any position in the church.
Let me reiterate, I would like more people who’ve been divorced to have a chance to present their case, but you can at least see that some forgiven people can be prevented from doing things just because of their past sins. Since there shouldn’t be any argument on that point, the question of whether or not divorce disqualifies one to the positions of pastor and deacon is not as radical as some would make it and should not be argued on the gelatinous foundation of “fair treatment.”
Another point to consider is that under most everyone’s interpretation, a pastor currently going through a divorce would not be qualified to remain as pastor because he’s not 1) beyond reproach, 2) managing his household well, or 3) in good reputation among outsiders.
If you don’t read or care about anything I’ve writte, at least take this point home with you:
I’m of the persuasion that we should look at the circumstances but in most instances you will probably not be qualified if you’ve been divorced. Dave seems to believe that it disqualifies you for a short time (subjective–what is short?) because of the other qualifications for those ministry positions, but that the same issues that caused the divorce could still disqualify someone if they are still being exibited (like not managing the household well or being beyond reproach). Volfan is to the right of my position because he believes divorce disqualifies a person forever simply because he believes that is a qualification for those positions.
No one can really say how long it takes for someone to live a godly life and be qualified again for a position they’ve not been qualified for. If a man had a reputation for being the town drunk (I believe this was Dave’s real-life example from his ministry),
Certainly we want our church leadership to be an example to other believers and that they (nor we) should ever make light of sin, especially sexual sins, nor should we set low standards for these ministerial positions, excusing a lack of ability, skill, or calling because someone is “called” or “available” or “the position needs filling.” Even if someone is called to the ministry, they still have to meet the standards outlined in the Word of God.
Joe White:
You said to Dave–”Third, this Scripture (along with the teaching of Christ in Matthew 19)… implies that the marriage covenant is something that God takes very seriously. Someone who breaks public vows to the Lord and his wife is disqualified from leading God’s flock.”
That word implies points to interpretation. You are interpreting the scriptures and you believe they lead to one interpretation but could there possibly be another interpretation.
Do you think you could possibly be too dogmatic about this issue?
My comments are getting too verbose. Sorry all.
And, Joe, I want to make it clear that I, too, take the marriage covenant seriously.
The problem with advocating my position is that I end up sounding like I take divorce lightly. I do not.
My point is not that divorce is okay, but that God can rebuild the character and integrity necessary to lead in God’s church.
Andrew,
Do not apologize for your comments. You have added a lot to the conversation – especially in those places that you agreed with me.
Just one clarification: I would not say that a man could return after a “short” time. I don’t have a set time I would recommend – as long as it takes for a man to work through whatever issues led to the divorce, and to demonstrate his character and integrity, demonstrating his ability to lead.
Dave:
You said to Joe White:”Again, I do not agree with Tom’s assesment here.” Believe it or not I am very teachable, where is my assessment wrong? My thanks in advance.
Yeah, I suppose you didn’t. My question is, what would you guess is the minimum for someone who was divorced assuming it was because of infidelity on the woman’s part and there wasn’t a whole lot of shebang going on? Also (I know this is dabbling in very subjective matters), do you think Ted Haggard could ever return to pastoral ministry?
Tom, I was referring to your assessment that he had not provided scriptural support for his position (you said that about him and David).
I think I agree with your position more, but not your assessment that they were not giving scriptural evidence. I disagree with their interpretation of scripture, but I can see how they are using scripture to arrive at their point, even if I do not agree with how they get there.
Does that make sense?
Dave M:
You said to me–”I disagree with their interpretation of scripture, but I can see how they are using scripture to arrive at their point, even if I do not agree with how they get there.
Does that make sense?”
Yes, I am not the best writer in the world and should have stated my point better to 007 and Joe. I do believe they can point to scripture for their point but I do not arrive at the same interpretation that they do. It is in my view too dogmatic.
Andrew,
I can’t put a time limit on it.
I see leadership comprised of integrity, character and reputation. Integrity and character take time to rebuild. Reputation usually takes longer.
It would usually be a matter of years in my mind.
Tom, that is my perspective too
Dave raises an important point, and one which years ago brought me away from “husband of one wife” meaning never divorced. Jesus said a man divorced and remarried is an adulterer precisely because he is still married in God’s eyes to his first wife. Polygamists were not considered adulterers.
Bill,
Are you saying then that people who are divorced are adulturers? If so, that would most certainly prevent them from serving as pastors or deacons. I’m just trying to figure where you’re going with the issue of adultery/polygamy, since I assume you’re of the persuasion that divorcees can be restored to the pastorate/deaconate.
Bruce,
Please pardon me for not responding more quickly to your request for verses re: deacons being called. Frankly there are not a lot, but I still stand by my ascertation. After all: how many times does God have to say something before it is true?
I assume you agree that “call” and “calling” are important NT words, and that there is a “general call” into the faith and a “specific call” into one’s vocation or ministry (and this transcends Calvinism and Arminianism, even though Calvin was one of the foremost advocates of this understanding). Regarding a ministerial call, besides the verses that have been discussed in this thread, there is also Hebrews 5:4. And by virtue of 1 Tim 3:8, what applies to ministers equally applies to deacons.
Of course, for some long period of time–roughly the 2nd or 3rd century until the advent of Baptists in the early seventeenth centuries–deacons were regarded as an order of a priesthood rather than as an ordained, lay-calling. That, however, is hardly a bar to understanding deacons as being called as certainly as ministers; and the fact than many writers of the early church regarded deacons as having to be called by God adds to a “tradition of understanding.” I am as much opposed to giving primacy to tradition as any other Baptist, but when you have a body of tradition and nothing opposing it–either from other tradition, orthodox theology, or Scripture–it should certainly be considered.
I suspect that the issue of tradition is where many Baptists veered away from regarding the deacon as a calling. In effect, we threw the baby out with the bathwater; and, especially in the past hundred years or so, have gotten so wrapped up in the qualifications of a potential deacon, that many churches have lost sight of the “fact” that while a candidate must meet these qualifications, they should also have some sense of call to be a deacon. Thus election to the office becomes a popularity contest, or worst, a reward for meeting the qualifications, or worst still, a way to try and draw an inactive person/deacon back into the life of the congregation. As I said earlier, recognition of God’s call has come at least three ways in Baptist life, historically: (1) a supernatural sense of God’s call; (2) a recognition (by the candidate) that he is qualified, and by virtue of these qualifications, is comfortable with the calling; and (3) the affirmation of the congregation that they too believe the candidate to have been called, which is expressed through some sort of a vote, followed by ordination.
In closing Bruce, I would challenge you to do a search yourself. Search the use of the word “deacon” in the NT and words related to “call.” And don’t either the “proto-deacons” of Acts 6 (who are not titled) or forget to search for the word “servant,” because that is the literal meaning of the word “deacon.” Every well-off Roman household in the New Testament era had a deacon: it was the title given to the slave (or servant) who was in charge of running the house and making sure it was well-supplied! If you don’t have an exhaustive concordance, you can go to http://www.crosswalk.com or http://www.biblestudytools.com or http://www.biblegateway.com and look up the words on line. Blessings!
John
Bill,
If a man, or woman, is divorced for the permitted reason…adultery, then they are not living in adultery. They are divorced, but not living in adultery. They divorced due to a reason that the Lord permits divorce.
But, they are still divorced. And, if they are remarried, then they are not a “husband of one wife.”
David
Dave and Tom,
I guess it is possible that I am being too dogmatic about this issue. However, the question was asked… “Are Divorced Men Fit For Church Leadership?” I have tried to answer that question honestly. Tom, I guess my question is why are people who hold an opposing viewpoint to yours always so dogmatic?
Perhaps wishfully, and some would say logically, one may argue that, “…it seems contrary to the ways of Christ to make that (Divorce) a permanent death mark for service.” In my opinion this is very similar to the egalitarian argument which says… “Would God disqualify half of the human race from Pastoring?”
I believe the Bible teaches that while all may serve the Lord and seek to fulfill the Great Commission, not everyone is qualified to Pastor a N.T. Church (hence the list of qualifications).
It just occurred to me that a potential deacon who divorced his wife in the New Testanment era in Judea would not have to worry about whether or not he could remarry and, in God’s eyes, have two wives–because his first wife, the adulteress, would be stonned to death!
Should the fact the we have gotten a little more civilized (for lack of a better term, or if you prefer, have seperated church “law” from civil law), automatically be a bar to one serving as a deacon or a pastor? It is, after all, a shift in the context and presuppositions of the Scripture.
Just wondering. . . .
John
Joe, I agree with your comment above. I just think the burden of proof is on those who would exclude from service.
I believe that the Bible is clear that ministry in the church (pastor/elder/deacon) is limited to men. I think the biblical evidence is overwhelming for that.
I do not think the biblical evidence on this one is clear enough to issue a blanket prohibition to all divorced men to serve.
I would guess that you believe that the evidence is strong enough to satisfy you, Joe. it is not for me.
I guess our best bet is just to make our marriages work and we won’t have to worry about it.
John: Although it happened (Stephen), the Jews in NT times were not permitted by the Romans to execute people, so adulterers or adulteresses would not normally be stoned.
David: If a man remarries after his first wife dies, is he a one-woman man? How is this different than if he were to divorce according to Jesus’ criteria for permitted divorce?
Andrew: I’m saying what Jesus said. Divorced and remarried is adultery, apart from the exception Jesus provided. I don’t like it, but I don’t know how else to read his words.
Dave,
It was not my intent to speak of your motives. Really, knowing that the question could be taken either as something of a throwing down of the gauntlet or as an honest inquiry to further the conversation, I was trying to find something jovial to say at the beginning of the comment to try to set a collegial tone.
Bill,
No they were not “permitted to” as a matter of administration under Roman occupation. But that would not stop “vigilantee justice” any more than the law stopped lynch mobs either in the Old West or the South. Remember John 8: 1-11? I don’t think they were about to take this woman to Pilate; the mob was about to kill her, IMHO.
John
Thank you, Bart.
I will ask again. Is there evidence in the Fathers or in Greek literature that I am not aware of that would shed light on this?
I really do want to get this right.
Bart, I am a Bible student, but I know that I am not a scholar. I guess I took your comment as tryin to belittle my study on that basis.
I am sorry if I misinterpreted the intent of your comment.
Bill,
I thought you were of the persuasion that divorced men could be considered for the pastorate/deaconate. That’s why I was asking you.
All,
I sometimes check out a website from a seminary professor at Dallas Theological Seminary. I don’t agree with everything the guy says, but he is pretty conservative and has written extensively on the Bible. His commentaries on the Bible are available in PDF format and the one on 1 Timothy has an outline, with pros and cons (based on the Bible and biblical values) of each of the major positions on the phrase, “husband of one wife.” He doesn’t state his position, but he does at least give a pretty fair assessment of each position. I think you all should take a look. The positions are outlined in a chart that might be a useful tool in explaining the different positions. Here’s the link to the commentaries: http://www.soniclight.com/constable/notes.htm
Another commentary I found (I just did a Google search, so I cannot endorse it until I read more about it) said this (it might shed a little light on Dave’s quest for early Church fathers):
“[The second marriage after the first wife's death] was a major concern of the Early Church, especially Tertullian, and is still an issue in Baptist circles in Europe. However, 1 Tim. 5:14 is a parallel passage where younger widows can remarry with no reproach.”
The commentators suggests that it may be a statement against the false teaching that forbid marriage (1 Tim. 4:3) which would basically be interpreted as saying that singleness is not a requirement for ministry. While that may be a secondary intention of Paul’s statement here, I’m not convinced that is the answer to the question of the “husband of one wife” question.
Here’s the direct link to that commentary: http://www.freebiblecommentary.org/pdf/VOL09.pdf
Since someone asked about patristic opinions, here is Augustine:
“Neither can it rightly be held that a husband who dismisses his wife because of fornication and marries another does not commit adultery. For there is also adultery on the part of those who, after the repudiation of their former wives because of fornication, marry others. This adultery, nevertheless, is certainly less serious than that of men who dismiss their wives for reasons other than fornication and take other wives. Therefore, when we say: ‘Whoever marries a woman dismissed by her husband for reason other than fornication commits adultery,’ undoubtedly we speak the truth. But we do not thereby acquit of this crime the man who marries a woman who was dismissed because of fornication. We do not doubt in the least that both are adulterers. We do indeed pronounce him an adulterer who dismissed his wife for cause other than fornication and marries another, nor do we thereby defend from the taint of this sin the man who dismissed his wife because of fornication and marries another. We recognize that both are adulterers, though the sin of one is more grave than that of the other. No one is so unreasonable to say that a man who marries a woman whose husband has dismissed her because of fornication is not an adulterer, while maintaining that a man who marries a woman dismissed without the ground of fornication is an adulterer. Both of these men are guilty of adultery” (Adulterous Marriages 1:9:9 [A.D. 419]).
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060727154341AALSO5s
Dave,
Here is an article about the early church fathers. I’m sure most of us would disagree with some of the conclusions that those guys came to.
http://www.theologicalstudies.org.uk/article_divorce_snuth.html
Dave,
With you, I concur that divorce always disqualifies. With you, I affirm that divorce is not the unpardonable sin. With you, I acknowledge that there are biblical grounds for divorce given. With you, I find the polygamy theory unsatisfactory.
With you, I have no advanced degree in biblical exegesis. I’m a History guy, remember? So I was not coming at you as though I were the authoritative expert. If I am any sort of a scholar, I am a scholar in another field. A Ph.D. in History makes me no more an expert in New Testament exegesis than it makes me an expert in Military Strategy—I’ve had to read a great deal of the history of both, but not as a systematic study of either field.
So, to your questions and to mine.
I have not prepared any sort of a thorough survey of the history of this phrase’s use outside of the New Testament. This is likely one of the reasons why I have not blogged about it (although certainly I have blogged about other things without being adequately prepared!).
Nevertheless, I would give you two things to consider:
1. The lynchpin of your entire argument appears to lie not in a survey of biblical teachings about divorce, but in the meaning of “one-woman man” in the key New Testament passages. In other words, you seem to argue that we ought to adopt your view primarily because of the meaning of the phrase “one-woman man” rather than arguing that certain key points found in the Old Testament and New Testament teachings about divorce will lead us to a certain position on the question of divorced deacons and elders. Indeed, your articles go so far as to say that “The question of whether divorced men can serve as deacons, elders, or pastors is based almost exclusively on [this] one small phrase.”
Thus, excellent as your survey of the biblical materials was (and it was excellent), I think you were exactly right when you stated that the question of divorced elders and deacons turns not at all on all of that excellent work that you did in surveying the Old and New Testament passages regarding divorce.
With regard to the key item of your argument, your foundation consists of it “[seeming] to almost explain itself.” It is as though you built this beautiful, level, well-reinforced, carefully cured concrete foundation, and then built your house across the street from it on the dirt.
So, what about those of us who read “one-woman man” and it does not seem almost to explain itself in the manner that you have suggested? What we need is for you to make a case for us as to why these words so pointedly and evidently mean what you suggest that they mean. For we know that the way a certain combinations of words might smack you or me in English is very little evidence of how they came across to a Greek person two millennia ago. For example, were I to speak to you of a “bowel movement” I doubt that love and compassion would be the first things that come to your mind. And yet we have 1 John 3:17 and Philemon 7 and Philemon 20 and a handful of other passages saying odd things like, “refresh my bowels in the Lord.”
Thus, although I am not a New Testament scholar and do not have bound volumes of research to put before you on this matter, I do recognize in general the danger of the interpretation that just explains itself. Now, of course, sometimes passages do indeed just explain themselves, but that brings me to my second point.
2. I don’t think that you can so easily put off the burden of proof on this question.
Yes, the matter is a serious one. And you correctly note that we ought to know what we’re doing before we exclude brothers and sisters from following what they believe to be the calling of the Lord in their lives. However, I would make a few points that cause me to believe that the burden of proof belongs upon you.
A. As has eloquently been established in this thread, we are, the both of us, in favor of excluding the divorced from serving as deacons and pastors. The question before us is whether that exclusion is a temporary or a permanent exclusion. You write that “the burden of proof is on those who would restrict the divorced from serving.” And yet, by your own confession, that is a category that includes us both, is it not? It seems to me that the burden of proof is upon you just as much as it is upon those whom you would convince—or, at the most, you’ve only removed the burden of proof from those who hold what you term the “compassionate” view.
B. Although I affirm with others here (or was that on your initial series?) the importance of following the Bible over following tradition, I do believe that the novel and minority interpretation bears a somewhat greater burden of proof than does the longstanding interpretation.
We ought not to be putting ridiculously insurmountable burdens of proof before any argument. Our goal is simply to know what the Bible teaches, not to win contests or protect the status quo. And yet, when someone brings forward a new idea, precisely because it is a new idea, it requires that some argument be brought forward to sustain it, at least to introduce the process by which the new idea came to be. Hopefully, when the traditional idea came forward as a “new” idea once-upon-a-time, the same was required of it. And then, it having survived similar challenges in the past, it has by its very survival proven itself to somebody in some manner.
We ought to try to know why we believe what we believe, certainly. And “That’s what my old preacher believed” certainly is a poor reason for believing anything. But I ought to have good reason to believe the new idea just as much as I ought to have good reason to believe the old idea. And if no good reason has been put forward to believe either point of view, then I’m sticking with the old idea.
C. Because you’ve taken it upon yourself to author these posts and advance these views. Do these actions not place at least some burden of proof upon you, as the author and teacher?
SUMMARY:
I’ve gone on much longer than I intended. Let me conclude by saying this. I’m not at all saying that you can’t meet the burden of proof. All I’m saying is that you are obligated to meet it, and that you haven’t yet done so. That’s my opinion, with no weight of expertise behind it, but merely as one who, together with you, wishes to get it right so as to be obedient to our Boss.
Dave M:
Bart said to you:”With you, I concur that divorce always disqualifies.”
Did I miss something, I have not seen where you said this?
Please correct me if I am wrong. My thanks in advance.
Tom Parker,
I thought I understood Dave to say that any divorced man is disqualified from service on the day that he divorces. The question is whether he is disqualified ten years later (or whichever time or stage of the aftermath that you wish to indicate).
Tom,
Bart accurately summarized my position. I think a man going through a divorce, even if he was seen as the “innocent” party (and in what divorce does one party bear all the blame), would have a hard time being a good servant.
He accurately stated that our disagreement comes as to whether the disqualification is temporary or permanent.
We agree that a man in the middle of a divorce would not be able to serve.
We disagree whether a man with a divorce in the distant (see my discussions with Andrew about that one) past could be restored to leadership.
Andrew and Bart,
Thank you for the information. I will not be able to respond immediately to either Andrew’s links or Bart’s ideas. There is too much there to do it justice with a quick response. I will try to digest it a little and come back.
Bart, I have one more (historical) question for you.
Is it accurate to say that in Church history, divorce has permanently eliminated one from service – that such has been the predominant position of the church? That would be my impression, but I am not sure.
Dave,
Take your time. I don’t think that I’ll be done with it anytime soon. From the looks of what I’ve found (just skimming the surface, mind you), the early Church fathers were quite against divorce for anything less than infidelity. A few even held that a man who divorces his wife should not remarry unless the woman sins and commits adultery because to do so would be adultery.
Of course, I was only skimming, and I didn’t see that any of the fathers had referenced 1 Timothy, but they certainly seemed to be referencing Christ.
Be forewarned though, a few people seemed to support doctrines that were obviously unbiblical (like the eternal permanence of marriage (after death even). I think the early church fathers’s defense of the permanence of marriage helped form Catholic understandings through history (Like Henry VII who had his wives executed because he couldn’t get a divorce).
Interesting quote from the “Free Bible Commentary” linked above.
“Truthfully, I do not know many Christian leaders who could consistently fulfill all of these requriements throughout their lives. So before we becometoo critical of the flaw of leadership remember that these qualifications are God’s will for all His children. I am advocating not lowering the standards, but not using them in a legalistic, judgmental sense. The church needs godly, socially acceptable leadership. However all we have to choose from is saved sinners! Modern churches must seek out leaders who have proven themselves faithful over time, no perfect leaders.”
Don’t know the author (three men are listed on the site) but I think there is wisdom in it. Of course, I always think there is wisdom in people who agree with me.
Andrew,
If the link you provided above, and all the quotes it contains (comment 117), then it seems clear that Bart is right that my view is a definite departure from the concensus of the early church.
I don’t think that makes it wrong, but it is a fact nonetheless.
Bill,
I believe that marriage is a til death do us part thing. Once the woman is dead…the man is free to remarry, and it would certainly not be a disqualifying thing. His first wife died. He’s still a one woman man. He stayed with the first wife until she died.
David
Comment 117 was not mine, but Patrick Watson’s.
I think the challenge in dealing with 1 Timothy and Titus is the fact that divorce has so permeated our culture. We’ve become de’sin‘sitized to it and have grown to understand that “irreconcileable differences” is a-okay and that marriage as a covenant is archaic. The widespread acceptance of divorce has lead to the widespread acceptance of adultery and fornication (we have more cordial euphemisms these days–friends with benefits, live-in boy/girlfriends, common law couples).
The problem is that the same thing is happening with homosexuality in the church. I think part of the reason why divorce prohibitionists (really, these people need a term or something) strongly oppose the line of reasoning that says its okay to have a pastor who was divorced is because they are getting the same logical arguments and reasoning from advocates of full rights and privileges for homosexual “Christians.”
If anything, we need to be taking a bigger stand against all forms of sexual sin, not just homosexuality, but the lax attitudes and behaviors we are now finding even in the church. If ever the U.S. needed more preachers without the stain of divorce or premarital sex, it is now. I understand that we can all be forgiven and it is good to have people who can connect with the culture, but we also need leaders who can set a good example and who have set a good example. This isn’t to diminish the ministry of people who did that stuff before they were Christians, but the truth is we do need a example in the leadership.
On an off-topic note, only a few states actually recognize common-law marriages, and most people who claim common-law marriage don’t actually meet the qualifications of those states. I work in Human Resources.
I stand corrected. Sorry, Patrick.
The link to Tom Constable’s site was helpful. Great discussion. I think he was at Dallas the same time I was.
No sweat, Dave. All I did was search Yahoo.
Augustine himself, as I understand it, lived quite a wild life before his conversion and remained celibate afterward. I think this was the case with quite a few of the early church fathers.
This suggests they would disagree with those who say pastors MUST be married in order to be a good example etc.
The Apostle Paul said that it was better if someone could remain single. So, I doubt that one woman man means that a man must be married. I believe that the meaning is “if they are married, then they must be a one woman man”…kind of idea.
David
Bart,
I suppose arguing about who has the burden of proof is not productive. I can see your point, that I am moving contrary to the overwhelming majority view through church history. I think that exclusion should take place only with the strongest of evidence. Ultimately, though, I guess it is incumbent on both of us to prove our point.
I will reference your outline points in responding, for the sake of clarity.
1) When I said, “The question of whether divorced men can serve as deacons, elders, or pastors is based almost exclusively on [this] one small phrase,” I really meant that this is the only biblical evidence for the exclusionary viewpoint.
The conclusions I drew from the entire study were that the biblical teachings were nuanced about divorce, not as cut-and-dried as they are made to seem by many today. Divorce was permitted, but limited in the Old Testament. It was even, in one unique place, commanded by God.
Fundamental to my view is the conclusion of this survey, that the “divorce is always contrary to scripture” viewpoint does not match the evidence. I will not repeat all of that here, for time’s sake. It is still available at the links above.
Your point is well-taken about the words, “one-woman man.” What do they mean?
I will admit that they do not clearly make my point. But I would also maintain that they do not, either, clearly mean “never divorced.” Neither side can point to this scripture and claim that the words definitively make their point.
Even in this comment stream, some have made comments indicating that the Bible clearly says divorced people are disqualified from these positions. My key point in this argument is that this verse, whatever it does say, does not clearly reference divorce. Greg Alford’s comment above indicated a way of saying “never divorced” in Greek. This passage does not say, “never divorced.”
What does it say? I interpret it in the light of the nuanced teachings of the entire scripture on divorce. But I will agree on this – we need to do a linguistic study of that phrase that determines what a phrase like that would mean to a Greek speaker of the first century. I’m not sure I have the tools to do that.
If it could be demonstrated that in common Greek usage, that phrase means never divorced, I think my position would be in trouble.
By the way, your “refresh my bowels in the Lord” comment was a great blessing. As a Corpulent Baptist, the image was really helpful in diet control.
2) I think I addressed the burden of proof issue. I would admit that pushing the burden of proof to the other side is convenient. But we must keep studying until we are sure we have the full counsel of God on this issue.
a) As to the time issue – I think that my view is consistent with the way we treat all these issues. A drunkard is restricted from serving. But we do not say that someone can never have been a drunkard. If they were drunkards in the past, they must have repented and turned away from that. We treat each of the qualifications of elders and deacons in this way – seeing them as character qualities to be developed in Christ – over time. We don’t ask candidates if they were above reproach when they were 19. We want them to be above reproach now. There seems to be a time element inherent in the qualifications.
It is only divorce that we treat this way. The question I ask is whether a man is a faithful, devoted husband now and has demonstrated such satisfactorily in the church. If he had problems in the past, that does not change what he is now.
b) I will admit that differing from established, historical, traditional interpretations of scripture burdens me with a need to prove that the traditional view does not meet the test of scripture.
At Dallas, Dr. Barbieri made this statement in hermeneutics class. “If you come up with an interpretation that no one else in 2000 years has ever come up with, what is the chance that you are right and all the interpreters of scripture throughout church history are wrong?”
We should honor church history, but not venerate it. I must show that the traditional prohibition of scripture does not meet the scriptural evidence. I tried to do that in my series of posts. I did so to my satisfaction, but that doesn’t mean that will be satisfied.
c) This is true.
This is a long response, but I think it is still shorter than comment to which I am responding. I don’t know if I earn a prize for that or not.
I think there is a distinction between someone who has committed sin in the past and repented of it, and someone who is divorced and remarried while the first spouse is still alive.
If remarriage in these circumstances constitutes adultery, then the person who does it is still an adulterer. He/she remains bound to the first spouse or to single life. The sin is ongoing as long as they remain with the second spouse. The person in this situation has obviously NOT repented.
The number of years that may have passed since the divorce is not relevant to the analysis, unless you think there is some kind of statute of limitations on sin.
Patrick,
I have asked several times, and gotten no response from anyone. If it is adultery to be remarried, why do we let people into memmbership who are remarried?
If it is adultery, they should come under discipline and be put out of the church if they do not repent, shouldn’t they?
Dave, I’ve thought since this thread began that it comes back to the meaning of church membership and discipline.
Before I answer, let me stress that I think everyone should be welcomed, embraced, ministered to, taught and allowed to participate in worship and all other church activities.
Membership is another matter, which in my view involves two particular privileges/responsibilities. Those are voting and the Lord’s Supper.
We are not doing anyone any favors if we admit them to full communion while they remain in an obviously sinful lifestyle. Many sins are private, of course, and all you can do is teach against them. But when people cohabit without marriage, live an openly gay life, divorce and remarry, and other such things, they can cause other brothers to stumble.
So yes, I would apply discipline against such people if they persist in their sin after being counseled and given many chances to repent. It’s tough love but I don’t see another choice.
Brother Patrick,
First, I may have missed something in your comments. If so, please direct me on which comment to go to for clarification… there a quite a few in this thread ;^)
Now on to my question:
In the case of a man who was married and is currently married to a different woman, you have said that he is continually committing adultery. That part I think I understand. My question is whether or not you are implying that the biblical thing to do would be to divorce the second wife? If not, what is it he should do in order to repent?
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
Brother Patrick,
Point of clarification: the man was married, then divorced, then married a different woman.
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
Andrew: I am of that opinion.
All: I asked this once. Forgive me if I missed the answer. It is divorce that disqualifies a man, or divorce and remarriage? If it is divorce that you think disqualifies, could you provide some scriptural support for that belief?
I’m also wondering about FTME’s question, or something similar. A man divorces his wife, for something other than unfaithfulness. They both remarry. Jesus calls this situation adultery. (at least my reading) My question is this: When does it stop being adultery? Would any of you prevent a newly married couple from joining your church if they had been in prior marriages, assuming they met the other membership criteria? If someone in your church divorces and remarries, do you place them under church discipline?
Bro MidEast,
Start reading at Dave’s comment # 132 and then the following exchange. I think you’ll get my point. You didn’t miss anything.
As for the right corrective action, it depends on the circumstances. In most cases this would mean the man should separate from the second wife and either 1) reconcile with the first wife or 2) live as a single man.
If children are involved, for their sake it may be advisable for the man to remain under the same roof as the second wife but refrain from sexual relations.
In the current U.S. culture these things get very complicated, unfortunately. None of the options seem very appealing. I guess I’m being idealistic here, and I’m glad not to be a pastor who has to deal with such things.
Bro MidEast,
To further clarify: the man in your example would not be “divorcing” his second “wife” because he was never legitimately married to her, assuming his first wife were still alive.
Patrick
Brother Patrick,
It sounds to me as if you are suggesting it is okay to destroy the second relationship for the sake of the first – possibly even two if the first wife is remarried as well. And, really, if the first wife is not willing to reconcile, you are saying a man should destroy the relationship between him and the second wife even if the first relationship was not to be reconciled.
What do you recommend in the case of someone who was divorced prior to becoming a believer and is now married with children and they are all walking with God? Should he divorce her in the hope that the first wife would come back? What about someone who has been remarried for 20+ years?
Apologies for the numerous questions. This is the first time I have heard this particular understanding of Holy Scripture.
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
I think I am going to compile, from this comment stream, a list of the 10 most difficult questions we have to answer related to this issue.
I think the problem will be narrowing things down to only 10. I have enjoyed this discussion, but it raises more questions than it answers.
And, I am shocked that we have gotten to 142 comments without anyone challenging my title about divorced “men.” I thought someone from the women in ministry wing would ask me why I limited the question to divorced men.
Dave:
Why did you limit your question to only divorced men?
Dave,
I have to agree with you. Divorce causes more questions than answers. It also creates more problems than it solves, at church as well as in homes.
I cannot help but wonder if the question you have raised might not in some way be spawned as a reaction to our depraved societal trends? For example: Perhaps this question was not raised in the past because 5% or less of the population got a divorce. But now, with over 50% of all marriages ending in divorce the question comes to the forefront.
Another monkey wrench:
If a man is remarried and both he and his new wife are Christians, does he have to go back to his first wife if she’s not a Christian and is satisfied with the divorce? I’m thinking of this passage from 1 Cor 7:15 ——–
But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.
Another question is “What constitutes ‘marital unfaithfulness‘?” Is it only having sex with someone who isn’t your spouse? What about emotional affairs? Pornography? Physical abuse? If I am abusing my wife, does that cound as unfaithfulness?
In the OT people who committed adultery were stoned. People who had premarital sex had to get married or they were stoned. So if people have premarital sex and don’t get married but rather marry someone else, are they adulterers (or worse)in God’s eyes?
The church has been so focused on homosexuality as of late that we’ve never really thrown these issues on the table for people to discuss. It’s no wonder there’s so much confusion.
Joe,
I haven’t really seen much of an increase in discussions on divorce. If anything, I think the reason we’re not talking about it is because it’s so common within the church.
I think we’ve been too focused on the homosexuals when it comes to the defense of marriage at the expense of taking a stand on issues relating to divorce. The issue of homosexual marriage is probably more of a result of high divorce rates and changed views of marriage than it is a cause (though that may change in the near future too).
Thanks for being the one to ask, Tom.
I am assuming you know the answer. We hardcore fundamentalist old-fashioned, patriarchalists are everwhere!
Bro MidEast,
Sorry not to respond sooner. Your last reply came after bedtime here in my time zone.
Yes, I am saying that adulterous relationships by purported Christians should be ended, and the church must act if the couple will not turn from their sin.
The problem is identifying whether or not any particular relationship is adulterous. The answer is highly dependent on the application of Scriptural principles to the facts of each situation. It’s hard to give blanket answers (which I know is very un-Baptist of me. Sorry!)
Andrew nails it in comment 146. These things are surprisingly complicated and generate all kinds of questions. The answers can be hard to accept, which I think is why we want to avoid thinking about them.
Andrew,
I might not have been as clear as I had hoped in my previous comment. I did not mean to imply that we were having more discussions about divorce. I agree with you, I do not think we are addressing this issue enough. My point is this; could it be that since divorce is so common within the church… that we have allowed this “common” occurrence to distort our view of the sacred text? Hence the question… “Are divorced men fit for church leadership?” being asked in 2009… but not in the previous 2,000 years or so of church history.
Joe,
I think your suggestion is dead on. I like to think my view of scripture is not shaped by culture (don’t we all want to believe that?)
But when divorce was rare, it was easy to hold definitive and non-nuanced positions. Now, a huge percentage of our folks have been divorced.
For me, it is an issue we have to deal with.
if I were a prohibitionist, I would say the prevalence of divorce has caused us to shape our interpretations around our situations.
With my view, I say the prevelance of divorce has caused us to reevaluate our traditional view and hone in on what the Bible really said.
But, Joe, you are absolutely right that the numbers of the divorced have probably driven the discussion.
Patrick,
Though I don’t fully agree with your position, I think, at least, that you are consistent in your application of scripture.
If remarriage is, per se, adultery, then it is not just a leadership thing, but a general moral issue.
Hey, consistency is my middle name!
The thing is, not every remarriage is per se adulterous. Andrew quotes 1 Cor 7:15 which describes one exception. If two unbelievers marry, one subsequently converts and the other refuses to live in peace, the new believer is no longer bound to that marriage. They are then free to marry someone else.
That’s just one of many, many possible scenarios. This is why I say each situation must be considered individually on its own merits. Unfortunately, few churches have the pastoral manpower to give this issue the attention it deserves. We all share some of the blame for letting it get out of control. Frankly, I don’t know how to get back on track.
Dave,
A good response. I suppose you are correct in assessing as unproductive any arguments over the burden of proof. Perhaps we could just leave it at this: Whether one is or is not obligated to prove his point, it always helps to do so!
In Christ,
Bart
Bart, my son tells me Andreas Kostenberger has written on the issue we discussed – the meaning of the phrase “one-woman man.” I am guessing his work will be pretty good. I am studying his survey of tithing and it is excellent.
I looked at what I could find from Andreas Kostenberger. He found that divorce was only permissible on the grounds of adultery or abandonment (he denies neglect and abuse as grounds for divorce). I couldn’t find his take on the “one woman man” thing, but I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say he’s going to be of the prohibitionist persuasion.
Dave,
Just found it. Kostenberger is okay with pastors who were divorced so long as the divorce was on just grounds (adultery/abandonment). He views the “man of one woman” text as being an idiom for “faithful husband.”
He makes the argument (like has been mentioned here a few times) that if Paul meant that divorcees were prohibited, he could have said it more plainly. Perhaps, but I think that is arguing from what isn’t there. After all, the NT writers could have said other things more plainly too, like the doctrine of the Trinity, most of the text of Revelation, etc. That doesn’t make his other arguments have any less merit, but this one is certainly a weak one (his argument for the idiom is much more convincing).
http://biblicalfoundations.org/pdf/pdfarticles/midwestern_3.pdf
Thanks for the linke, Andrew. If his take on this is as good as his take on tithing, it will be very helpful.
For anyone interested and still following this, Kostenberger’s article is well worth reading – not just since he tends to view the passage the same way I do.
Kostenberger messed up this time. I appreciate his reminding me of the “univirae,” for I had never thought to connect the two concepts. But the idea of the univirae supports neither Dave’s position, my position, nor Kostenberger’s position. It really supports the position of the Patristics (that elders cannot remarry even after the death of a spouse). The univirae were explicitly women who had been married to one and only one man for life…no premaritcal sex, no adultery, no divorce, not even remarriage after widowhood.
Also, Dave, I don’t read Kostenberger’s position to be quite the same as yours. He seems to me to be saying that biblically permissible divorce that does not impugn the husband’s faithfulness ought not to disqualify at all (even if it happened ten minutes ago), while any other sort of divorce ought to disqualify forever. That was not the position that I understood you to be articulating.
I’m going to have to give this connection to the univirae some thought. That’s just the sort of thing that I was asking about when I posted my questions earlier. The Patristic position just gained a little bit of ground in my mind. I REALLY dislike that position, but as it gains exegetical weight…
…it’s about obedience to the Lord, not our preferences, right?
Adding to the weight of this is the fact that being a “one-man woman” or univirae in the Roman world was a requirement for a woman to serve as a priestess in many of the Roman cults. This requirement was explicitly understood as a requirement that a woman have one-and-only one husband for all of her life.
(I knew that History of Ancient Rome course at Baylor would come in handy for something someday.)
Again, Kostenberger has just really put some grist into my mill here. I had never thought to connect the univirae with this verse before.
I didn’t mean to imply that our views were identical. My point was as I read it (if I understood him correctly – and you scholastic types tend to go over my head) that the “one-woman man” tended to refer to marital faithfulness more than never-married.
That is what Kostenberger said, but he applied it to marital faithfulness not just as a present condition but as a lifetime achievement. In other words, Kostenberger argues that there are some divorce situations in which the marital faithfulness of the divorcing man has not been impeached (e.g. divorce on biblically permissible grounds due entirely to an offense by the other spouse). In such a situation, the standard of marital faithfulness has been met.
In other situations, when the divorce did not take place on biblical grounds and the marital faithfulness of the man has been impeached, Kostenberger seems to be saying that it has been impeached for life (or at least he isn’t saying other than that).
The bigger point that I was trying to make is this: The only real evidence Kostenberger offers for the phrase being taken that way is the univirae. But that’s a big piece of evidence. You have a very similar phrase used in a very similar timeframe. Now, univirae is Latin while our other phrase is in Greek. It would be better, no doubt, if it were in Greek. But considering the widespread influence of Roman culture through the Empire, it is difficult to imagine that Paul’s Hellenistic context had not at some point acquainted him with the concept of the univirae.
I checked to see if there is anything on the Internet about the univirae. There are volumes of information out there. I encourage folks to Google it. I think you’ll all see pretty quickly that the univirae were women who explicitly married only once in their lifetimes. If widowed, they did not remarry.
Perhaps the Apostle did not employ the phrase “not divorced” because he meant something MORE than “not divorced”? Certainly, I do not see how the concept of the univirae can feasibly be taken to mean anything LESS than “not divorced.”
I tell you, I’m really going to have to put some research into this. Combined with the Patristic advocacy of this viewpoint, the possibility that our “one-woman man” is a phrase deliberately modified from “one-man woman” is a viewpoint that must be considered seriously.
When you figure it out, write a blog about it. I’m going to read the paper in more detail, but I doubt I have the historical background to wade through all the stuff you are talking about and make discerning critique.
Sounds like a job for Super-Bart!
Seriously, I hope if you figure something out on this, you will make it known, even if I have to adjust my views.
I am not sure I ever made this clear in this comment stream – though I think I did in the general articles I linked to above – I do not consider all divorces alike.
If a man’s wife leaves him for another man, that is one thing.
If a leader leaves his wife for another woman, that is something completely different.
Even in the earlier situation in which he is the “innocent” party, he will need to inventory his own life to see what he did to contribute to the divorce; how he might have done better in demonstrating Christ’s love to his wife.
Perhaps he has not been the kind of husband he should have been.
But, in the second situation, he has broken faith with God and his wife. He has walked away from his most sacred covenant.
I believe that the first man should be able, after appropriate time has passed (purposely vague there) to be restored to leadership.
The second man, I’m less sure that is a good idea. Restored to fellowship in the church? Of course! Repentance always restores us to fellowship. But leadership – I would have to see the highest level of godliness demonstrated over many years to see that he would not fall again into sin.
And even then, I’m not sure.
All divorces are not created equal. I cannot see that it is a good idea to treat all divorces alike.
Chris Johnson has raised an interesting question on his post today. When is a marriage over?
A good follow-up to this debate.
For what it’s worth, here is a link to an article about a pastor who is a self-confessed and convicted murderer, but later turned his life around.
It is not my intention, by posting this, to throw my hat in with either side of the present argument. I just thought that, given the context, this article is interesting. It would be interesting, for example, for those who defend a strict, no divorce, no church leadership position, to know whether or not they think this man should also be disqualified. Especially, remembering that Paul and Moses were both murderers as well. Would it ever be possible for someone like the man in the article to have “a good reputation with outsiders”?
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/religion/stories/047909dnmetkillerpastor.3d02476.html
It seems many are assuming remarriage as part of the argument…that marrying after divorce violates the “one-woman man” requirement. So then what if a man is abandoned and does not remarry. He commits to a life of celibacy. Is he then disqualified as well? He is not the husband of more than one wife. And what if his wife who abandoned him dies? Is he then free to remarry without consequence?
And along a slightly different line, what if an unregenerate couple marries, he is saved and then she leaves him. If he then commits to celibacy and is properly trained and called, can he serve as a pastor or deacon?
I promise I’m not trying to nitpick, but these are honest questions that have come up in my own mind.
I wonder if Occam’s razor is the best solution to the problem. Everyone seems to want to write off an injunction against polygamy out of hand, but it certainly presents a simpler solution to the quagmire of questions, scenarios, and exceptions of the “never divorced” view.
If a man commits adultery, repents, and is reconciled to his wife, is he fit for leadership? He never officially married more than one woman, but he certainly has “joined” himself to more than one woman.
Dave Woodbury,
I would answer your two scenarios this way.
1) I do not agree with the no divorce/no remarriage view as an absolute, but, if you hold that position, this man is the husband of one wife. Until he remarries, he has only one wife.
2) The same principle would apply in the second scenario.
However, I think in both of those scenarios, the man would be free to remarry anyway.
But the prohibitionist viewpoint (a remarried divorcee is husband of two wives) does not really account for a man who is divorced but does not remarry.
A prominent example of that, of course, is Charles Stanley.
Bill, from what I have read (and I am no historical expert), polygamy was not widely practiced in either Jewish culture or Roman society of the day.
If that is truly the case, then why would Paul make an issue of polygamy in assigning requirements for leadership?
David: I have read that also, and I wonder if for that very reason Paul may have done so. And although polygamy may not have been widely practiced by the Jews, it was clearly not forbidden nor unheard of. Paul may have wished church elders to set an example to the Roman world. Despite their dubious morality in many ways, Roman gentiles would no doubt have looked askance at Christians with multiple wives, particularly Christian leaders. An injunction against polygamy is certainly more in line with the clear meaning of the words of the text. As someone has said, if Paul had meant never divorced, he clearly had the words to say so.
Bill, in one sense I agree with you. I think it is clear that polygamy is in view here.
But I doubt that polygamy is either the main thing or the only thing in view.
YAY! I know everyone is happy I got my Yankee gravatar back. Now that the Yanks have won 8 in a row and are in first place, we are all rejoicing together with one voice.
Dave: Again not arguing anything new, but I’m attracted to the polygamy view, not only because it fits the culture and context and plain reading of the text, but it doesn’t leave me trying to explain why the sin of divorce disqualifies one from leadership while murder, rape, theft, etc (assuming they have been repented of) do not.
[...] recently read portions of the article, Are Divorced Men Fit for Church Leadership?, written by Dave Miller posted on the sbcIMPACT! Mr. Miller presents his arguments logically and [...]
This is for David Rogers – you know why!
It did no good!
Dave;
I recently came across your article and I must say that it was very well written and thoughtfully persuaded. I took have been divorced (3 times actually over the course of 41 years, two of which were before I was saved). I agree with your statement about how the man of one wife, being that the one you are currently with and faithful to, understand the marriage covenant and adhere to it. Like faith at times, marriages can be very challenging.
I personally do not agree with barring those who have been divorced from leadership roles if they have truly repented of their sins and are qualified for the positions. Unfortunately in our fallen world now days it seems like if you can kiss a lot of you know what, who your friends are, and what click group you belong to in the church. Not to be judgmental here, but I have been to some churches where the deacons and the elders were not properly protecting the Word of God, the Pastor, and especially monitoring the trash that has become the gospel (false) in many buildings.
Another things I found interesting that you never made mention of that is destroying a lot of marriages these days as well as leadership positions is pornography. That is one of the greatest things killing men in our churches today, killing testimonies, and yet it goes forth either unnoticed, not repented and restored of, and especially publicly confessed. I know that a man does not want to admit his shame nor lose his prestigious position, or worse yet, be excommunicated from his fellowship, but God still know his sin and his heart.
The church (in my opinion) has to get back to some very basics fundamentals, and that is we are ALL STILL SINNERS this side of heaven and daily depend on God’s grace and mercy. We are not any better of today than yesterday other than we are saved by grace in faith in what Christ has done on the cross. We are no better than our neighbor no matter what we might think, for we are all still sinners, and it does not matter the sin for all are equal. So technically even the Pastor and all positions would be disqualified from their positions had it been up to God instead of what man thought. That is a shame, for I have seen some lives greatly transformed and redeemed that love the Lord with all the heart, mind, soul, and strength more so than a man who has been indoctrinated by the worldly church, and yet is denied to serve the Lord they love all because of man’s judgment instead of God’s forgiveness.
Thanks again for the great article. It was a Blessing
)
Sincerely,
Shawn
Thanks for coming by, Shawn. I am sorry I never saw this and did not interact with you.