Comments on: Southern Baptist Myopia Reflected in Our Response to the Great Commission Resurgence? http://sbcimpact.org/2009/06/02/southern-baptist-myopia-reflected-in-our-response-to-the-great-commission-resurgence/ life :: theology :: church :: ministry :: missions :: worship Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:40:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: The Homogeneous Unit Principle and Racial Segregation in Baptist Churches | sbcIMPACT life :: theology :: church :: ministry :: missions :: worship http://sbcimpact.org/2009/06/02/southern-baptist-myopia-reflected-in-our-response-to-the-great-commission-resurgence/#comment-11889 The Homogeneous Unit Principle and Racial Segregation in Baptist Churches | sbcIMPACT life :: theology :: church :: ministry :: missions :: worship Fri, 05 Jun 2009 11:27:58 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=3155#comment-11889 [...] post is a follow-up to Alan Cross’s interesting and insightful post of Tuesday in which he challenged us to take seriously Article III of the Great Commission Resurgence [...] [...] post is a follow-up to Alan Cross’s interesting and insightful post of Tuesday in which he challenged us to take seriously Article III of the Great Commission Resurgence [...]

]]> By: Alan Cross http://sbcimpact.org/2009/06/02/southern-baptist-myopia-reflected-in-our-response-to-the-great-commission-resurgence/#comment-11888 Alan Cross Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:33:31 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=3155#comment-11888 You know, I was thinking about this last night and I thought about what Bill Hybels and the Willow Creek Association has been doing the last few years through their Leadership Summitt. I went to one last year and it was obvious that they are placing a major emphasis on justice issues, multicultural ministry, and ministry to the poor. They realized a few years ago that their seeker sensitive model based on the HUP had created churches full of white, middle-class people that were primarily concerned about their own lives. They realized that this was not God's will, so they went about trying to systematically present a different message. 5 or 6 years into this, along with Rick Warren's change in focus, all of evangelicalism is seeing the result. Why couldn't Southern Baptists do a similar thing with a similar effect? There are 20,000 WCA churches from all different denominations that are being affected by this. You know, I was thinking about this last night and I thought about what Bill Hybels and the Willow Creek Association has been doing the last few years through their Leadership Summitt. I went to one last year and it was obvious that they are placing a major emphasis on justice issues, multicultural ministry, and ministry to the poor. They realized a few years ago that their seeker sensitive model based on the HUP had created churches full of white, middle-class people that were primarily concerned about their own lives. They realized that this was not God’s will, so they went about trying to systematically present a different message. 5 or 6 years into this, along with Rick Warren’s change in focus, all of evangelicalism is seeing the result.

Why couldn’t Southern Baptists do a similar thing with a similar effect? There are 20,000 WCA churches from all different denominations that are being affected by this.

]]> By: Bruce Harp http://sbcimpact.org/2009/06/02/southern-baptist-myopia-reflected-in-our-response-to-the-great-commission-resurgence/#comment-11887 Bruce Harp Wed, 03 Jun 2009 12:48:35 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=3155#comment-11887 I just hope we do not approach the desegregation issue in the church the way the United States did. It should not be a designed process that we try to put together to accomplish this. Even the promotion of this creates hypocrisy when people are not moved by the Spirit. Yes, we do need to be aware of this and know that the true church will be totally desegregated. Jesus said that He would build His church. Maybe if we turn inward and recognize that the church needs to be washed by the Word it may be ready for the future in a more natural way by the leading of the Spirit. In God’s kingdom there are no ethnic groups and those who are the true believers only see the heart of another who is just like them. I just hope we do not approach the desegregation issue in the church the way the United States did. It should not be a designed process that we try to put together to accomplish this. Even the promotion of this creates hypocrisy when people are not moved by the Spirit. Yes, we do need to be aware of this and know that the true church will be totally desegregated. Jesus said that He would build His church. Maybe if we turn inward and recognize that the church needs to be washed by the Word it may be ready for the future in a more natural way by the leading of the Spirit. In God’s kingdom there are no ethnic groups and those who are the true believers only see the heart of another who is just like them.

]]> By: Dave Miller http://sbcimpact.org/2009/06/02/southern-baptist-myopia-reflected-in-our-response-to-the-great-commission-resurgence/#comment-11886 Dave Miller Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:57:36 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=3155#comment-11886 This was an insightful discussion. Wish I'd been around my computer today to participate. But good stuff. I am not a fan of the HUP. I think Jesus came to break down ethnic and sociological walls, not sanctify them. This was an insightful discussion. Wish I’d been around my computer today to participate. But good stuff.

I am not a fan of the HUP. I think Jesus came to break down ethnic and sociological walls, not sanctify them.

]]> By: Dave Samples http://sbcimpact.org/2009/06/02/southern-baptist-myopia-reflected-in-our-response-to-the-great-commission-resurgence/#comment-11885 Dave Samples Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:36:58 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=3155#comment-11885 I think that Dr. Peacock may be on to something when he speaks of a multi-ethnic church being a "foretaste of glory divine". It seems to me that some very special things are happening in North America that appear to be quite uniquely originating with God. The church that I pastor has seen an amazing influx of diversity over the past eight years. We have Australian, South African, British, Korean, Vietnamese, Polynesian, Japanese, Hispanic, Romanian, and perhaps a few more that I can't think of at the moment. I think that Dr. Peacock may be on to something when he speaks of a multi-ethnic church being a “foretaste of glory divine”. It seems to me that some very special things are happening in North America that appear to be quite uniquely originating with God. The church that I pastor has seen an amazing influx of diversity over the past eight years. We have Australian, South African, British, Korean, Vietnamese, Polynesian, Japanese, Hispanic, Romanian, and perhaps a few more that I can’t think of at the moment.

]]> By: Chris Johnson http://sbcimpact.org/2009/06/02/southern-baptist-myopia-reflected-in-our-response-to-the-great-commission-resurgence/#comment-11884 Chris Johnson Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:31:03 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=3155#comment-11884 David, Good points... -Chris David,

Good points…

-Chris

]]> By: David Rogers http://sbcimpact.org/2009/06/02/southern-baptist-myopia-reflected-in-our-response-to-the-great-commission-resurgence/#comment-11883 David Rogers Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:21:17 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=3155#comment-11883 Chris, I didn't sense any "swats" coming from your way towards mine. So, no problem there. And Alan is correct in that I was not proposing a survey, but rather some studies (e.g. Bible studies) on these issues, as a curriculum offering for our churches. I agree that just giving lip-service to the issue or occasional "eye candy" is not going to do the job. But, my thought (which just occurred to me in the context of this discussion) is that maybe intentionally bringing these issues before the "folks in the pews" in order to mull on, in the context of what the Bible has to say about them, might be a helpful step to get some folks who haven't yet given much thought to these issues to begin to think about them more seriously and biblically. Our actions are generally reflections of how we think. And how we think is largely a reflection of what we have been led to believe, according to the input we have received. Chris,

I didn’t sense any “swats” coming from your way towards mine. So, no problem there.

And Alan is correct in that I was not proposing a survey, but rather some studies (e.g. Bible studies) on these issues, as a curriculum offering for our churches.

I agree that just giving lip-service to the issue or occasional “eye candy” is not going to do the job. But, my thought (which just occurred to me in the context of this discussion) is that maybe intentionally bringing these issues before the “folks in the pews” in order to mull on, in the context of what the Bible has to say about them, might be a helpful step to get some folks who haven’t yet given much thought to these issues to begin to think about them more seriously and biblically. Our actions are generally reflections of how we think. And how we think is largely a reflection of what we have been led to believe, according to the input we have received.

]]> By: Chris Johnson http://sbcimpact.org/2009/06/02/southern-baptist-myopia-reflected-in-our-response-to-the-great-commission-resurgence/#comment-11882 Chris Johnson Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:11:31 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=3155#comment-11882 Brother Alan, No doubt we "will" get the surveys. And David,...I wasn't taking a swat at you either my friend, because I believe it is good to take the pulse of those in the convention from time to time. But know doubt,the best indicators of change will be seen through soft hearts locally with sister churches just down the block. I like your call to a cautious claim of something that has yet to occur or is simply eye candy once a year. Blessings, Chris Brother Alan,

No doubt we “will” get the surveys. And David,…I wasn’t taking a swat at you either my friend, because I believe it is good to take the pulse of those in the convention from time to time.

But know doubt,the best indicators of change will be seen through soft hearts locally with sister churches just down the block. I like your call to a cautious claim of something that has yet to occur or is simply eye candy once a year.

Blessings,
Chris

]]> By: Alan Cross http://sbcimpact.org/2009/06/02/southern-baptist-myopia-reflected-in-our-response-to-the-great-commission-resurgence/#comment-11881 Alan Cross Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:50:35 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=3155#comment-11881 Chris, I agree completely. I am not advocating a survey by Lifeway. I think that David R. was talking about some Lifeway studies to be used in our local churches that could be helpful. My main point in writing this was not to say that we have not come a long way. I do appreciate David Worley for bringing up that point. But, half way on a journey does not bring us home. It is still just half way. Yes, God has to melt our hearts and turn them in love to others. I just see a lot of talk about a lot of things, like CP allocations, alcohol consumption, restructuring the denomination, etc., and I think that these heart issues are where the real advancement will be made. The Integrity in Church Membership resolution last year was a good start, but it took several years to even get that passed and I don't know what the result has been. I am glad to see this addressed in the GCR and my hope is that it will not just be words on a page but that something will come of it as we seek to carry it out on a personal and local level. If there are going to be Convention wide intiatives in these areas, I also hope that that area receives the attention that it needs because it does affect us more than we recognize. Chris,

I agree completely. I am not advocating a survey by Lifeway. I think that David R. was talking about some Lifeway studies to be used in our local churches that could be helpful.

My main point in writing this was not to say that we have not come a long way. I do appreciate David Worley for bringing up that point. But, half way on a journey does not bring us home. It is still just half way. Yes, God has to melt our hearts and turn them in love to others. I just see a lot of talk about a lot of things, like CP allocations, alcohol consumption, restructuring the denomination, etc., and I think that these heart issues are where the real advancement will be made. The Integrity in Church Membership resolution last year was a good start, but it took several years to even get that passed and I don’t know what the result has been.

I am glad to see this addressed in the GCR and my hope is that it will not just be words on a page but that something will come of it as we seek to carry it out on a personal and local level. If there are going to be Convention wide intiatives in these areas, I also hope that that area receives the attention that it needs because it does affect us more than we recognize.

]]> By: volfan007 http://sbcimpact.org/2009/06/02/southern-baptist-myopia-reflected-in-our-response-to-the-great-commission-resurgence/#comment-11880 volfan007 Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:46:25 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=3155#comment-11880 David, I've come to expect this from a certain crowd. It doesnt even bother me anymore when they say it. My motto is "Have a tough hyde and soft heart." Besides, Jesus said to expect treatment of this sort as you live for the Lord and preach and teach the truth. Thanks for stepping in though. I do appreciate your kindness. David David,

I’ve come to expect this from a certain crowd. It doesnt even bother me anymore when they say it. My motto is “Have a tough hyde and soft heart.”

Besides, Jesus said to expect treatment of this sort as you live for the Lord and preach and teach the truth.

Thanks for stepping in though. I do appreciate your kindness.

David

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