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What in God’s Name Are We Doing to Our Children?
Posted by Dave Miller in Church & Missions, News & Culture
I found out recently that at the end of the year I will become a grandfather for the first time. I have every good reason to believe that my grandchild will be raised in church. But what will that church be like? I am concerned that many of the trends designed to get kids into church and keep them happy while they are there are actually having a detrimental effect on them in the long run.
Of course, I am concerned about the declining standards in our nation, the shaky economy, the disturbing moral trends. Violence, immorality and perversion fill the airwaves. The family is breaking down, our schools are a mess; the moral foundations of our nation are crumbling. What is going to happen to my grandchild growing up in this moral cesspool?
But I have a more serious concern today. I am bothered by the effects of a pagan society on the next generation, but I am more concerned about what the church of Jesus Christ is doing to our children. Permit me to share my concerns. This is an edited and updated version of a blog I wrote a couple of years ago. My concerns have not changed.
A prominent church developed a children’s ministry center. The designer had worked for Disney and built a visual wonderland to amaze and attract. In the hopes that many children would come to Christ, the church put in a baptistery; one especially designed for children. It was shaped like a fire truck and equipped with a confetti canon that would fire every time a child was baptized.
The preceding paragraph is NOT fiction. I have talked to people who have been there. That church may be extreme, but it is indicative of what is going on in children’s ministries across America. Children’s ministries are competing with fast-paced children’s television programs and exciting video games. So, we compete. If Disney can entertain our children, we will do it better. We will out-Hollywood Hollywood and out-rock-and-roll the music industry.
This is all done with the most noble of motives. The bright lights of our culture attract children, so we use the bright lights to attract them to Christ. If the kids watch TV, let’s give them VeggieTales. If they are going to play games, they might as well have a Christian theme. Their music might as well have vaguely Christian words. Whatever we have to do to get them into the church and keep them there, we will do.
But there may be a problem with all this. I am afraid that in our noble desire to make the church more palatable and entertaining, we are in danger of raising a generation which has no concept of what Christianity really is. My generation is narcissistic and self-indulgent. What will this generation of entertainment-jaded youth be when they have all grown up?
Jesus described the essential nature of Christianity. “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.” Nothing about entertainment there. Paul told the Philippians, “It has been granted to you on behalf of Jesus not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him.” I thought Christianity was supposed to be fun! But Jesus promised his disciples that in this world they would have tribulation.
We work very hard to make the church experience fun, exciting and entertaining. We cater to children and youth. But following Jesus is self-denial, not entertainment. We are called to serve him; not just to enjoy him. How are kids going to learn this lesson if children spend their lives being catered to and entertained? When is the last time an American child was asked to sacrifice for cause of Christ?
For several years I led a ministry at my former church called Bible Drill. It is hard work. Every week I had a dozen or so wonderful Christian fourth through sixth graders in my office whining about Bible Drill. “This isn’t fun. Can we go outside?” Every week I gave them the same response. “Nothing of real value in life is fun. The things that really matter require hard work, sacrifice and faithfulness.” The message never seemed to get through. These kids were not juvenile delinquents. These were good kids – church kids. In fact, one of them went home with me at the end of the evening. But they had an idea ingrained into their pre-adolescent minds. Church is supposed to be fun. If it isn’t fun, they shouldn’t have to do it. Where would they have gotten such an idea?
I am raising an issue for which I do not have an answer. I do not want to make church dull. Howard Hendricks said that it is a sin to bore people with the Word of God. I agree. I see no real problem with using technology to create interest. But I do think that we have to be careful not to let kids grow up in the church enjoying the show without being challenged to sacrifice for the cause. Jesus did not say, “If anyone – except the children – would come after me…” We cannot give children a watered down gospel or ignore the call of Christ to sacrificial living.
In our effort to keep kids coming to church, have we compromised the reason why they should come? Is the goal to get them into the church or to see them passionately devoted to the Savior? Is this why the church is losing the vast majority of its children when they hit college? Is it that we have bought into the “bigger is better” ethic and sacrificed quality for quantity in ministry?
Anyone remember Pinocchio? Wasn’t it the carnival that led him into bondage?
I hope we can steer my grandchild in a different direction.
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Dave,
You’re a jaded old fogie. However, I think you have good reason to be jaded. The expectations of 21st Century evangelicals were set in 20th Century youth groups and church camps.
See if this doesn’t resonate. A successful youth ministry in the 1980′s and 1990′s had to have:
* A hipster leader who dressed down
* Lax dress code for attendees
* Guitars and drums for worship music and if there was a keyboard it was electric
* Edgy messages that challenged people to be “authentic” and “real” but contained little in the way of doctrine or systematic Bible study
* A focus on meeting the needs of the people in attendance rather than the object of worship
* Modern translations of the Bible
* Comfy seats instead of pews
* Sitting in a circle or semi-circle instead of rows and aisles
* Lots of emotional appeal
* Lots of “Jesus talk” and very little “God talk”
* Contemporary congregational songs with words only projected on a screen rather than hymn books or even sing-along books
* Lots of hand-holding, hugging, and shoulder-crying
Feel free to add on as you see fit. I expect most of us are youth group graduates and are seeing parallels between what we had in youth group & summer camps and what is now turning up in worship services. For that matter, how many pastors got their feet wet in youth ministry and are just translating the skills they learned there to the pastorate?
Point being, if the parents, as grownups, are still living with the expectations of youth ministry (pastors included) as a substitute for meaningful worship and service in church, how can we expect any less of the children?
As to what the answer is, I have a few ideas, but I’ll let some other folks chime in on the thoughts above before posing some solutions.
Unfortunately, Rick is right, and as a youth pastor, many churches are still seeing those criteria as successful for Youth Ministry. I see it often in interviewing for ministry positions.
Brent
I teach our junior youth on Sunday and Wednesday nights (but I am not a youth pastor) and I have encountered the problem of the kids complaining about the lessons not being fun. I have seen a sharp decline in attendance (and there were not very many to begin with) as I have insisted that we actually open the Bible and study what it says. I have tried explaining to the kids that my goal is to help them lay the foundation which will carry them into eternity, not to entertain/baby-sit them for an hour. It is very discouraging but unless the parents are teaching them the importance of studying the Bible at home I think we may be fighting a losing battle. But, it is still a battle worth fighting.
Brother David,
When you said, “This is all done with the most noble of motives. The bright lights of our culture attract children, so we use the bright lights to attract them to Christ.”
I’m really not so sure it is the noblest of intentions or motives. It could be that the church is lazy and easy swayed by other winds and other lights. When the fact is… the only light that shines in (literally) the church is the light of Christ that has illumed and regenerated the spirit of a once separated wrath bound individual.
John 1:4-5 “In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. (5) The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.”
Your post should be one of thousands that bugle to the ignorance of a hedonistic parenting culture. The red fire engine is indicative of how narcissistic our church society has become to think that it is about the children and not about the Christ.
We can do something different. Teach and disciple parents to be able to discern the difference between Christ and a red fire engine. Teach them to love their children instead of pretending to do good to them with flash and circumstance. Living in a culture that temps the Christian at every turn,… may be we able to know temptation from revelation as we set our affections on Christ.
I hope you post this again in the future.
Blessings,
Chris
Church isn’t there to make folks happy. It’s there to make them holy. And do the other stuff God tells us in the Bible. I had a well-known and respected Mom in our church say the following in a business meeting, where we were discussing calling a youth minister:
“Church is the only hope our kids have .. ”
Huh? How can the church be effective when parents don’t see THEMSELVES as the primary spiritual influence in their kids’ lives? And why do we have to “attract” kids and wow’em with displays? Multimedia is NOT the power of God unto salvation!
Tom, you can be rigorous and fun at the same time. I taught biology and life science for five years in a Christian school and most kids did not regard the subject as “fun.” However, I did have fun in my classes, although not as much as the kids would like. The key is to make things meaningful and the fun will come. I am currently teaching the College and Career age class at our church and attendance has pretty much been sustained from their high school days. I attribute most of this to the fact that they have good parents and running a close second is that these kids are involved in a meaningful way with the activities of the church. They are involved in AWANA, various service projects, church work days, etc.
However, the one area where I can impact attendance is in my class. I am currently teaching through a series on practical apologetics and how to handle the objections they find on campus to Christianity. I pose questions and play Devil’s advocate and challenge them to convince me that Christianity is worth believing in. I can really be a hard case, too. I think it helps them to see that there is more to the faith than just answering arguments when I can shoot down their case for Christianity fairly easily. The good thing for them is that they are in the safe environment of a SS class where I can show them the weaknesses of their arguments and how to counteract the objections of the people they talk to. The important point is that they are able to go out Monday and put into practice the things they learned on Sunday morning.
Should you start teaching on apologetics? By no means, unless that is what they want to learn about. Ask the kids what their biggest challenges are to living out the faith, where they see others going wrong, what they wish they knew about the Bible, stuff like that. That is the first step in making the lessons meaningful. Note that I am not saying relevant. I think that term is overused. A lot of what was “relevant” during the 70′s when I was growing up is now irrelevant, so I think we should be more involved in providing meaningful content that has a concrete impact in where they live their lives.
Hope that helps.
rick
This is the best article that I have read. I hope that many have gained from this a knowledge that this first began with those who have been entertained in church their selves. Applying every new methodology and church-planting technique has done this. I’m sure that I will never be asked to write a book about how we kept our church so small, but there is One higher that I must give account to someday.
Bob said: “Church isn’t there to make folks happy. It’s there to make them holy.”
I think it is interesting that these two concepts are placed in opposition to one another. Makes it look like there is no happiness in holiness.
If I understand the Bible correctly, especially the book of Proverbs, holiness is the only real path to happiness. So in that sense, church IS there to make us happy. If the chief end of man is to love God and enjoy Him forever, isn’t the church supposed to be equipping us to do that? And if that is what God has designed us to do, won’t we then be most happy and most fulfilled when we are doing what it it is that we most want to do which is to love God and enjoy Him forever?
Brother Rick,
I think you have a point about the adopted’s relationship with God since it is no longer wrath related. The problem though in a great many churches these days, is the façade or shallow veneer of happiness that some folks believe they receive from artificial incentives (accoutrements) instead of Christ.
The proof is easily seen in the behavior of the church. Much of the time, if a certain “church facility” or its “programs” do not meet the immediate needs of the family, then the family seem compelled and justified to find one that will. That type of thinking is a great misunderstanding of who the church is and what she is empowered to carry out.
Blessings,
Chris
Good discussion, so far.
I think the problem, in general, is the adoption of the sense that Bob mentioned, that our job is just to get kids into church. If all we are trying to do is get kids into church, then we should use whatever means necessary.
a fire-engine baptistery with a confetti cannon? YES! if it gets kids in the doors of the church.
But, we must realize that our job is not just to bring people through the door, but to produce mature, godly, holy, warriors for the Kingdom of God. That requires a very different ethic and purpose.
and I agree with Rick that holiness does not have to be dull and boring. I think the main thing is that we challenge our kids to lives of kingdom significance, not just leading earth-bound and world-focused lives and including God as a component of life.
We know what came first, it was the chicken, not the egg! Parents came first, now we can properly trace back to the problem. As parents, my wife and I must be the first level of influence of our child’s life. Nothing influences children more than their parents. Nothing! If we give TV permission to teach our children, then, it will do so. It all follows the same principal.
I copied and forwarded this post to our new Children’s Minister. She is well educated and I want to see what her comments are. I wish more Children’s Ministry workers could better understand that they are working on tomorrow’s foundation.
I see that all of the material SBC uses for children up to adults is very, if not too, elementary. There seems to be no real gaps between each department level. Most importantly, there is such a gap between our adult material and what preachers study for the ministry that I am truly concerned and amazed. Our adults have been on, basically, a baby food diet for more than 30 years and we are concerned about what our kids are getting today? If SBC (LifeWay) produced and preachers implemented material that properly educated adults during Sunday School or otherwise, our children could be better grounded in the word from home. All of this “play school” stuff we are concerned with for our children would bore them to tears. We may need to start with the chicken and work down.
I am teaching our Vacation Bible School adult class this summer. The student booklet looks and reads like a comic book. No wonder people who come into our churches never are able to mature. They see God as a comic book hero from the very beginning. We seem to keep everyone in diapers now. I am in agreement with you and am fighting from where my feet are planted. I pray that you fight from where your feet are planted, as well. Change may not be efficient or effective. We may need to develop a separate area in our churches to begin a fresh start and implement the principals of God’s word with our families who have a desire for this. Of course, our society does not like segregation, either.
Good post.
Bruce,
Amen
In thinking through this issue, I think we must first come to some conclusion whether or not there really is an inherent conflict between entertaining and discipling, or between keeping something interesting and keeping something biblical. Dave has already alluded to Howard Hendricks’ statement that “it is a sin to bore people with the Word of God.”
I don’t yet have a strong, dogmatic opinion on this question. But I do think we need to think clearly about it. Is it possible that the answer is not necessarily “either-or” but possibly “both-and”?
In principle, if we assent to the idea that, in church, we should not be entertaining people, and we take this out to its logical consequences, this has far-reaching implications. What about “special music” and even choir performances in church worship services? What about jokes and illustrations in sermons? What about comfortable seating, and air conditioning, in our worship centers? etc., etc.
What about mission efforts where we use clowns, puppets, music, etc. to gather a crowd, in order to then preach the gospel? What about block parties, or any other similar strategies?
Jesus himself used parables, in part, in order to capture the listeners’ attention and imagination. The Bible indicates that signs and miracles had a function of confirming the preaching of the Word. Yet, Jesus strongly condemned “seeking after” a sign.
What I am thinking is that the key question is not whether or not we are “over-entertaining” our kids, or making things “too fun” for them, but whether or not the methods we use in actuality contribute to an accurate and biblical communication of the gospel or detract from it. If it is “all fun and games,” I think we do run a very strong risk of detracting from the gospel. But, some things that may be considered “entertainment” may actually have a positive value in helping to communicate the gospel. It is a matter of balance and discernment.
One other point I wanted to add: As cross-cultural missionaries, we attempt to present the gospel in a way that is culturally palatable to our intended audience. At the same time, we must take special care to not compromise the gospel, and turn our message into one of syncretism. I think a lot of the things we do with our kids and youth root in trying to be culturally relevant, which, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. The problem is when we cross the line to syncretism.
I was a youth minister for 7 years during the 1980s, and my wife is currently a full-time church staff member working with preschoolers. While I agree that children’s and youth ministries don’t have to be boring, I think that too often we measure the success of children’s and youth ministries by numbers. Thus, if you have a lot of kids, you are often considered to be successful. Unfortunately, we think entertainment attracts kids, but it usually doesn’t keep them when they get older. They often find “better” entertainment outside the church. Deuteronomy 6:7 indicates that the parents should be teaching spiritual truth to their kids. The church should not attempt to take the place of all the parents; rather, it should help all the parents understand their responsibility. The small church has an advantage many times over the large church in that kids can see their parents serving in the church, not just being entertained by the church. I’m not sure that people looking for a church care as much about children’s and youth ministries as we think they do. They obviously want a safe, nurturing church for their kids, but do they really demand all the bells and whistles that some large churches offer? A recent LifeWay survey was interesting. It reported that children/youth ministry was most frequently listed (85%) as one of the five most important ministries by SBC pastors. Preaching/proclamation/teaching was only listed by 20% of our SBC pastors as one of the five most important ministries.
Thom Rainer made an interesting point about this in his 2001 book, “Surprising Insights from the Unchurched and Proven Ways to Reach Them.” He indicated that most research on the unchurched had been done with those who would never join a church. He felt that it was more productive to do research on those recently churched folks who had been unchurched:
“Most research of recent years has asked questions of those not attending church, that is, the unchurched. A possible problem with this approach is that as many as 80 to 90 percent of this group may never attend church. In other words, we could be developing strategies to reach a sector of the population, which, despite our best efforts, will never attend church. Why not ask questions of those who did make the transition from the unchurched to the churched? Why not ask what influenced them to come to church and perhaps to become Christians? Since they were the receptive and responsive people, perhaps the principles we learn from reaching the formerly unchurched can be applied to reaching the presently unchurched.”
Rainer, Surprising Insights from the Unchurched and Proven Ways to Reach Them (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2001), 20.
So. . . . Rainer asked the formerly unchurched what factors led them to choose their church. Interestingly, 90% mentioned the pastor/preaching, and only 25% mentioned children’s/youth ministry. (page 21)
Good point David. Your point sparked a thought. We should add a place within the plan that exists now in our churches that takes everyone to the next step of maturity, including children. Once some have tasted the “heavenly gift”, they will display the fruits of righteousness, others will not. Hebrews 6 gives us some insight on this.
David,
I agree with you completely. I know of a youth group (very small) in which very little was done except the study of systematic theology.
I’m not advocating that.
I think we can use multi-media and even entertainment. But we cannot stop there. We have to move kids on.
At the least, I would say this. Regardless of how much fun a youth or children’s ministry has, it should include the following:
1) an understanding that the call to Christ is a call to service, ministry, sacrifice – we must give ourselves as living sacrifices.
2) We are to conform to Christ and not to the pattern of the world. We can enjoy the world and not embrace it.
3) Our youth and children’s ministries should flow both ways. We must ask our young people to work and serve and give and evangelize, not just gather, have some games, some music, a devotional and some pizza (though I think pizza ought to be a biblical requirement).
I’m not a huge Rick Warren fan, but I once saw his four point (baseball analogy – first base, second base, etc) plan for ministry. perhaps it has something for us here.
1) We need to have fun activities to build a youth peer-group and friendships. We need to get them active and involved.
2) We need to evangelize these kids.
3) We need to teach those who will listen to be biblically literate, grounded and knowledgeable in the things of God.
4) We need to train spiritually reproducing leaders within the youth group.
P.S.: Isn’t it strange that many churches separate kids from parents as much as possible while they are on the church campus? Many parents have bought into this, unfortunately, and thus the kids don’t see their parents serving in church. A friend of mine who pastors a small church told me recently that a young couple with kids visited his church. There was no “children’s church,” so the parents had to sit with their kids during the worship service. The kids behaved well and did fine, but the parents did not like the arrangement at all. They told my pastor friend that they preferred to drop their kids off somewhere before they went to a worship service. My friend does not expect them to come back to his church. I guess that is the soccer mom mentality. Some parents believe that their job is to function only as chefs and taxi drivers, not as teachers of spiritual truth.
Mike (BT),
You raise another interesting conundrum in youth ministry.
When I was a youth pastor, I had a mother who was not happy with something I did. I talked to her and we were working things out. I said this, “Ann, I’m just trying to help. Ultimately, it is your job to teach and train your children in the ways of God. I’m just trying to assist you.”
She got upset. In her mind, she was supposed to house, clothe, feed and educate her children, and I was supposed to teach them about God.
Figuring out how the family and the church youth group work together can sometimes be difficult. I think it is another balance issue, not an either/or.
I agree that the church is to assist the parents. Unfortunately, sometimes the only spiritual food the kids gets is at church. One hour per week at church is not enough. I mention one hour per week because my youth minister friends tell me that Wednesday night is now about the only consistent time they have with teenagers. Apparently most parents do not force their teenagers to go to church on Sunday morning. That’s a big change from the 1980s.
I suspect that many of the problems with youth ministry may stem from problems we encounter in children’s ministries.
I’m frustrated that I am often better at diagnosing problems (or criticising others) than I am at finding solutions. Children’s and youth workers do a great service to the church and I don’t want to be too critical of them.
As much as it may be a sin to bore people with the Word of God, it is also a sin to BE bored with the people of God. Ministries to children and youth should cultivate in them a heart for the people rather than the programming.
Good points, Baptist Theo.
When I heard the statement “Thinking outside of the box” in my youth, I began a lifetime of stepping away from an existing situation and trying to see a different, more workable solution, to things. Our SBC set-up for Sunday School hasn’t changed much since the 60′s and is in desperate need for adjustmens now. Not copying a Coke slogan again, I mean real creative and biblical changes within our churches. We sit in the same class and do the same thing almost every week, for the most part. The whole concept could be adjusted and not just for the sake of “change” We must have shepherds who are spiritually mature to see where immaturity exists outside the worship time. Our shepherds must take the lead and address this with the church body. Then, adjust for spiritual growth and maturity.
Another point about the children’s ministry: Using a Disney theme, or the like, is only exciting the first few times you see it. I’m sure you can get bored with Disney World if you worked there. Having that appearance every time you go to church may create the wrong idea down the line. The church is suppose to be separate from the world, or what is common, and we need to make that visible to those who would come in. The gospel is never appealing to a lost man unless the Spirit has already begun working on him. Great care must be taken when our hands are on the church that Christ died for and especially, the children. There is a difference between the Spirit and the Flesh. The carnival atmosphere at church can be seen from a heavenly perspective as a bait-and-switch.
In other words, a child grows up in our church, finds his vocation, winds up moving to some pioneer area where they don’t have a gazillion dollars to spend on the weekly spectacle. For imagination’s sake, let’s say that he winds up being moved to China for work, where the only church he can attend has no video projection, no accomplished praise team, no Bluefish sermon illustration videos, and no Disney-themed children’s church.
If he cannot find joy and mutual brotherly attraction in the simple experience of worshipping God in the midst of brethren, then we have done him a disservice, as we have to our Lord.
Bruce Harp,
I am not advocating the Disney motif. And I think your point about the possibility of getting bored with it as well is well taken.
However, I would like to continue to try to help us think clearly about all this. I have often heard it stated, “whatever you use to get them there, you’ve got to keep using to keep them there.” There is certainly some truth to this. However, from a missionary perspective, I would say that in order to attract Spanish people (for instance) to church, and to hear the gospel, it is important that you present yourself and your message in a way that is culturally relevant and palatable particularly to Spanish people (assuming, for the sake of the discussion, there is such a thing as typical Spanish people who typically respond more positively to certain cultural trappings than to others). By the same token, in order to keep them, it will be important to continue to disciple them and teach them in terms and communication styles that make sense and communicate to them effectively as Spanish people. However, as they grow into maturity, we should also seek to lead them to develop a sensitivity and appreciation for other cultural perspectives other than their own.
I think there is a difference between bait-and-switch and striving to be culturally relevant. I guess a true “carnival atmosphere at church” may well qualify as bait-and-switch. But I think certain things, such as music styles, have more to do with cultural relevance.
Bruce said: “If SBC (LifeWay) produced and preachers implemented material that properly educated adults during Sunday School or otherwise, our children could be better grounded in the word from home… We may need to start with the chicken and work down.”
A-MEN to that. The biggest problem I see is not that our literature is bad or even weak, it is that our teachers have not been prepared to teach. We often resort to a “willing warm body” as the person in front of the class rather than a capable, inspiring instructor. I would rather have a single class of 50 spanning an age of 5 to 15 with one capable teacher than half a dozen graded classes with teachers who do little more than read the literature and have kids fill in the questions. But then “we’ve never done it that way before,” so I’m guessing few churches would be bold enough to only have a class if there is a qualified, inspirational, motivated teacher. Sadly, this is probably true of the adult classes as well.
So, step 1 is to only allow passionate teachers to stand in front of students.
David said: “Jesus himself used parables, in part, in order to capture the listeners’ attention and imagination. The Bible indicates that signs and miracles had a function of confirming the preaching of the Word. Yet, Jesus strongly condemned “seeking after” a sign.” and then went on to comment that the method should contribute to the message, not detract from it.
Often we quote WWJD as a cliche, but the sad part is we rarely evaluate just what it is that Jesus did when he was here. Here are some key points about the lessons Jesus taught that we need to take into our classrooms:
* They were simple. Don’t confuse this with simplistic. The parable of the sower is simple to hear and repeat. It’s meaning is still debated. Simple doesn’t mean easy, just succinct.
* They were shocking. And not just for effect, either. How many times was he placed on the horns of a dilemma and resolved it with a shocking statement? “Let him that is without out sin first cast a stone.” or “Render unto Caesar the tings that are Caerser’s and unto God the things that are God’s.”
* They were solid. He used concrete examples – lost sheep, grapes, yeast, beggars, etc. We should spend more time teaching with object lessons and examples than high-blown theological concepts. Just look at the parable of the Good Samaritan for an example of a concrete example to illustrate a theological truth (Who is my neighbor?).
* They were sound. Everything Jesus said was true. Not only what it true, but it had the ring of truth. Many urban legends persist, not because they are true, but because they sound true. Do our lessons have the same ring of soundness to them as solid truth, or is it hollow, stilted, and whitewashing?
* They were sentimental. And I don’t mean they were maudlin. Rather, they involved the senses. They drew an emotional connection. If our lessons do not engage the emotions of our learners, they will never stick.
* The were stories. During my first year as a pastor in rural Indiana, I was having a friendly conversation with a Church of Christ pastor from the next town over. He told me, “In order to be a great preacher, you must learn to be a great storyteller. You will never connect with your congregation using theology alone.” I dismissed what he said because as a Bible college graduate, I was steeped in doctrine and besides, what does a Church of Christ pastor know? He didn’t have the truth anyway. It was years later before I became anything like a good preacher and it only happened when I learned to tell stories. (See? I just told a story. And it illustrates the point probably better than anything else I could say, doesn’t it?) We don’t tell stories for the sake of telling stories. We tell stories for the sake of illustrating truth.
Finally, Dave said, “I’m frustrated that I am often better at diagnosing problems (or criticising others) than I am at finding solutions.”
Well, Dave, I hope you’re not too frustrated. I just gave you seven nicely alliterated points that you can take back, put into practice, and watch Children’s Church and Youth Ministry blossom. For that matter, if you apply these same principles to adult ministry you’ll see the same thing.
rick
David, your mention of music styles is a good point. One of the reasons a lot of older folks are not attending like they once were is precisely the music. In attempting to be “culturally relevant” we have alienated a large segment of the population by not remaining relevant to their culture – the AARP crowd.
Rick,
Yes, we are dealing with famous (or infamous, according to your perspective) homogeneous unit principle of Donald McGavran, and other church growth theorists. It is hard to “do church” in a way that appeals equally to all cultural segments. I believe that in our evangelism (to the extent we can separate evangelism from discipleship), we should try to reach people, as much as possible, within their cultural element (e.g. becoming all things to all men in order to win some). However, as we disciple them, we must lead them to recognize, appreciate, and practice the unity of the Body of Christ across cultural divides, learning to defer to the preferences and cultural idiosyncracies of others.
I am very aware this is lot more complicated in practice than in theory.
Thanks for your comments, David. I usually approach a situation with the reins on the horse pulled to the right a little. Once I have a feel of the situation I can ease back. It’s the past “Fire, aim” approach that, for me, has created a flinch when “life changing” matters, especially in children, are at hand. I agree with you that we should be culturally relevant. There has to be a mix, but, not a lethal mix, if you know what I mean. Maybe there are too many young and immature people making the decisions and creating the atmosphere for our children (and adults). There is a reason for the aged mature Christian to be involved in this area, and, someone who has walked with God for quite a while, and, someone who has the true heart and soul for children. Someone gifted by the Spirit to minister to children. Someone has to be able to discern these things in people to help select them and grow them.
Thank you, Rick. I agree whole heartedly with you about teachers. I am on our Discipleship Team and we are trying to put together an in-house training for teachers. There is a little struggle because some want to bring in a PhD from outside of our church (no offence) or use a DVD. I’m sure there is nothing wrong with that and everybody’s doing it; however, we need to have a true teacher in-house, training in-house and producing other teachers in-house (That’s another story for another time).
The WWJD approach to things never really made sense to me. I always thought that we were being “conformed to the image of Christ”. Wouldn’t we basically respond in every situation the way Jesus would if we were walking with Him anyway? If I have to think about what Jesus would do in a situation I may not be being conformed to Him. Of course, that’s pulling the reins to the right a little.
Rick,
As long as the points are alliterated…
Thanks, Dave. Gotta keep up the Baptist street cred.
David,
I think our constant struggle is finding a culturally relevant method to share the gospel and make disciples without giving in to a culturally influenced message.
I think American Christians are all too often culturally influenced and compromised.
I didn’t really learn English grammar till I studied foreign languages. Perhaps people like you and FTME who have worked in other cultures have more of an appreciate of and insight into the process of contextualization.
Some of you guys are going to have to start using “Disney” words so I don’t have to keep going to the dictionary. It’s bad enough that this blog doesn’t have spell check! Ha
Bart,
I guess the question I would have is whether it is possible to use the multimedia, the theme-park children’s ministry and all those things that are so popular today and produced true disciples.
Obviously, what you say is true. if we attract people using glitzy, modern methods, are we subverting the transformation process?
Supercalifragilisticexpialidotius.
How’s that for you, Bruce?
Dave, I always wondered how that was spelled. Thanks for your good spirit.
Rick, I like your points about how Jesus taught. I will copy and study them. Thanks
Dave provocatively said, “I think our constant struggle is finding a culturally relevant method to share the gospel and make disciples without giving in to a culturally influenced message.
I think American Christians are all too often culturally influenced and compromised.”
If you want to get a quick argument going among Baptists, just start talking about how much of what we regard as “doctrine” is cultural artifact rather than biblical teaching.
Just one example – Marriage. The current controversy is about whether states should recognize gay marriage or not. Baptists are more than willing to take a stand on this issue. No one seems to be asking whether marriage is any business of the state to begin with. And if it is the business of the state, what is the state’s role in licensing marriage and what purpose is served by doing it? Keep in mind that there are NO state sanctioned marriages in the Bible and that marriage was an arrangement between families rather than something that required government involvement.
So the question that never gets asked is, “To what degree is our position as Baptists on the legalization of gay marriage a mark of the culture we are in rather than a direct teaching of the Bible?”
And that’s just one example. There are hundreds of things we can talk about that reflect not direct biblical teaching, but rather Baptist tradition that has been formed in a Western democratic context.
Actually, Bruce, I think its supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, perhaps. The national Spelling Bee is on today. Maybe someone there would know.
It looks right to me, Dave. I think I can keep up now. I will work with my computer Thesaurus to find new words to use, too.
One thing I have noticed about someone who is saved is that they seem to gravitate to the right things no matter how messed up they were previously. God seems to implant a new paradigm in them and they begin to walk differently on their own. They are being prepared for a different kingdom through a new man created in Christ Jesus and motivated by the Spirit. It’s like the miracle of changing whiskey into groceries. When God is in there, we simply do not have much control or concern about what was put in the brain before. The word washes us and transforms our actions. The heart that is filled and controlled by the Spirit seems to win out in the long run anyway. That is not to say we mustn’t do our part in heading people and children in the right direction. We simply do what is right and God can bring the glory to Himself quite sufficiently. Martin Luther didn’t sit still when the light of the gospel came to him. God can and does the same today.
Maybe one thing we need to consider is what is the fruit of the people putting together the children’s program? Also, what is their Spiritual Gift? Judging vs. discernment. We just need to address this sometime in the ministry to see if we are capable of identifying the sheep and the goats who work with our children. According to the scriptures, that is one of our tasks, too. Then, we simply need to act on our findings.
Dave,
Excellent work. Excellent words. May we hear them.
Rob
Brother David,
“a fire-engine baptistery with a confetti cannon? YES! if it gets kids in the doors of the church.”
How about… we “not use a fire-engine baptistery with a confetti cannon”… and instead, get the children in the”hearts” of the church, not its imaginary doors. Obedience to Christ’s command to be baptized should not be trivialized by some “get out of hell free card” in the image of a fire-engine. Wow!
Blessings,
Chris
Chris,
I’m thinking of adding a confetti canon under my pulpit. I could have a lot of fun!
I would not believed that story had I not talked to people who had been there.
Brother Dave,
Truly amazing stuff…thx for the alert!
Okay …. I’m late to the conversation.
Are you guys saying that our ministries (especially to kids) must be boring to be truly holy? And that if they are not boring (stark white walls, flannel board Bible stories, etc…) then they must be inherently unholy and “caved-in” to the culture (enemy)?
Just clarifying …
Geoff,
Actually, if we did have stark white walls and flannel boards it may start a trend. I don’t recall seeing that since the 60′s. I believe the problem with that, at the time, was that we were not suppose to have pictures of Jesus anywhere.
It seems to me that the overall approach was to minister to children without competing with Mickey Mouse. We simply do not have to copy and use what the world is entertaining our children with at home or a Chuck E Chez. Jesus does not have to be mixed into what is common to our children’s entertainment. Jesus is holy (uncommon) and we must use the best means to present Him to children without compromising His identity or using excessive worldly entertainment. Mom and Dad have a tremendous responsibility in the child’s preparation to hear and see and receive the gospel.
Brother Geoff,
I can’t think of anything more boring than a “a fire-engine baptistery with a confetti cannon”…but I think I understand your point. If someone believes that the “stark white walls and flannel board Bible Stories” are the image of holiness, then that is as boring as the “fire-engine”.
What is holy about baptism? Simply that it is done in obedience to Christ (the Word) which helps us understand the working of the person of Holy Spirit in our lives (Acts 19).
Its not cannons or red engines, its not the place or excitement that surrounds an architectural stunning rendition of a waterfall tumbling into a pond inside the church building. Even though the red engines seem to please the children,…and the waterfalls tend to astound the adults. It is in stark contrast to the holy obedience of a believer identifying with Christ; whether it be in a dungeon with Paul, or a pool of water with Philip, or in the midst of hundreds of mikvahs in and around Jerusalem, or in the lake down the street from me…the object and affection is Christ, not our emotion. Baptism is not some evangelistic stick or poster that emotionalizes a response acted out for applause or confetti… it is a response to what the gospel has already accomplished as revealed by the Word of God. (now that’s exciting!)
As Dave has pointed out, we must be careful as to what we teach and why.
Blessings,
Chris
Geoff,
I am decidedly NOT saying that we must be boring. The comment stream has struggled with this balance all the way through.
I just think that we have created a culture, and brought that culture into the church, that tells kids that everything should be fun, and that they should only do that which is fun. We’ve sort of developed church as Candy Land.
That is the problem I had. As I said in the original post, I am short on solutions.
But my fundamental question is whether the ecclesiological bling we use to attract the children and youth makes it harder, even impossible to then develope them into serious disciples.
Is our method of attraction interfering with our ultimate purpose?
If our purpose is “bigger” – then we are doing the right thing.
If our purpose is “better” (spiritually reproducing, living-sacrifice type disciples) – then we may be undermining ourselves from the start.
Dave,
Where do I get one of those fire engine baptistries that shoots confetti? And, do you think they’d make one in the shape of a moonshine still in TN Orange that plays Rocky Top for the adults?
Also, where do we buy the camoflauge version of Disney, or Candy Land? We were looking at something to spice up our childrens department.
Seriously, while I agree that we have gone overboard trying to be relevant, or to reach young people, or whatever the latest fad is… still, we should certainly make learning a fun experience for children…IMHO. Take Awana for instance. It stresses learning memory verses…a lesson is taught…a snack is served…and they play a fun game. Children love this. That’s why they enjoy VBS so much. But, at the same time, I do agree that a fire engine baptistry with confetti is to the point of being ridiculous. What happened to being excited because Jesus saved your soul from sin and the grave? from Hell? Whateve happened about being excited about knowing God, and being able to obey the Lord?
I think this is just a sign of the times. We’re living in a 1 Corinthian world in most Churches across the USA. Our Churches are full of fleshly, worldly, baby Christians, who have to be burped and patted on the back and rocked and who cry when they dont get thier way. They have to be entertained, or they wont come. Entertainment and having fun is the key….not worship…not Bible study…not fellowship….and certainly not obedience…and dont even mention service.
We have a heart problem in most of our Churches today, and we see the symptons everywhere we look.
David
Dave, the solutions are easy to find. The trouble is in the execution. Here are some “simple” solutions that are tough to implement.
* Only appoint teachers that are enthusiastic and highly skilled at inspiring learners at the age level or class composition they teach.
* Engage the learners through a variety of activities appropriate to the age level or class composition. This variety should take place within the class (I am the author of the national instructor training course for a major humanitarian not-for-profit and I tell my learners that they should never do any activity for more than 20 minutes at a stretch without changing it in some way. In a SS setting, I would say that a good class will transition to a different activity at least once every 10 minutes.)as well as over the course of the year. A good rule of thumb to enhance engagement is to never do a class the same way twice in a quarter and never have a class that is totally predictable.
* Focus every class on a single educational objective. Have a concrete answer to the question, “At the end of this class, what ONE thing do I want my students to be able to do?” This is counterintuitive to most teachers because they want to cover everything under the sun. Shotguns may have a broader pattern than rifles, but bullets fly much farther and are more effective over a longer range than a load of shot. Keep things targeted.
* Do something unexpected. Keep them guessing. This relates to the unpredictability above. The difference is that we should challenge students at every level with questions, with problems, with challenges that engage their minds. We should not be spoon feeding them. Our schools don’t spoon feed arithmetic – we teach it by giving them problems to solve (appropriate to their age level) and then make sure they have the skills to solve them. When was the last time you were in a SS class and were handed a problem to solve?
* Make it practical. Some things are rote but useful – memorizing the books of the Bible and memory verses for instance. This equips them to find passages they need. Other things are higher level like answering questions from skeptics and sharing the gospel across cultures. Give them something they can use, not just “know.”
* Make sure it has a “ring of truth” to it. Don’t try to pull the theological wool over their eyes or try to soft-pedal stuff. Some truths are hard and difficult to face. Others are easier to swallow. But don’t try to “explain away” difficulties. Instead, engage them and let the kids wrestle with them. I’m convinced that anyone who is seeking will find the truth, anyone who is knocking on the door or truth will have it opened, and belief will flourish in truth that has to be grappled with.
* Be passionate about what you teach. Be enthusiastic. Be emotional. We can do this through the use of analogy, parable, example, narrative, etc. Here’s an example. I was teaching a high school class not too long ago about the topic of forgiveness and the power of taking the initiative to make things right. Near the end of the lesson I said, “I want to say something to the class. Not too long ago, I did something to offend _________ and ever since then we’ve not been able to get along.” I then turned to the student and asked her if she could forgive me. It was a very touching and powerful moment both in the class and in my life (It’s always easy to teach on things but not always easy to do what it is that you are teaching). The class was one of the most emotional I’ve ever been in and was very powerful in conveying the message in a concrete, tangible way.
If we would incorporate these principles into our classes, we could have a class in a barnyard that is more riveting and impacting than one in a Disneyesque modern classroom. I think any of us who have ever been to church camp know how it is possible to have a great class with almost no bells and whistles. That is not to say we should throw the bells and whistles out, just that they are not the solution, only the accessories to the solution.
David, relative to the moonshine-still idea, please seen Peter’s new book. He might have something on that.
And nothing in any church anywhere should EVER play Rocky Top!
Seriously, we have become consumer-oriented. I think it roots mostly in the ethic that says we measure the success of a church by its size.
Dave,
True.
David
[...] a lively discussion at SBC Impact! last week about the best ways to minister to children and youth (What in God’s Name Are We Doing to Our Children?) . I thought Dave Miller raised a good question when he wrote (in comment #51), “But my [...]