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tagged: Geoff Baggett, IMB, International Mission Board, Missions, Panao Quechua, REAP Strategy, Short-Term MissionsTheological Training … Andean Style!
Posted by Geoff Baggett in Bible & Theology, Church & Missions
I just returned from the highlands of Peru. I was accompanied by my good friend and church member, Dr. Dennis Adams, as we traveled high into the Andes Mountains to the little province of Pachitea. Our church is in its second year of a four-year commitment through the IMB’s REAP North team to minister to the Panao Quechua people, a “micro” people group which is less that 5% evangelized. As a Strategy Coordinator Church, it is our responsibility to develop a strategy to help facilitate church planting among the Panao Quechua.
The strategy we have chosen is quite simple. We are training leaders through a newly formed training seminary for pastors and leaders, and supplementing this training with various high-impact ministry and evangelistic teams. The seminary is the dream of a handful of local pastors. They desire to train up Quechua men to plant and lead churches among the people of Pachitea. So they organized and worked together, across denominational lines, to form the Andean Interdenominational School of Missiology. They developed a twelve-course curriculum that students can complete in three years by attending one week intensive seminars in the spring and fall. Students complete two courses during each week, equivalent to 30 hours of class and study time. These pastors and leaders have asked that we (Crossroads Fellowship) provide at least one “professor” for each of the sessions in April and November each year, and that we provide Spanish language textbooks, if possible.
This entire endeavor is quite an undertaking. One fundamental problem that I recognize is the fact that the Quechua men do not seem to be “designed” for the classroom. (Indeed, they practically run for the doors at break time…) Sitting still is a struggle. And the desire to wander is great. Most of the men have farms, and families, back home. And a week away from both is a struggle for them. So the founders of the seminary, primarily the president, Edmin Leon Arteta, developed an ingenious plan. They organize community housing and hot meals for all of the men who must travel from great distances. (Indeed – some of these men travel an entire day by foot, burro, and truck to reach the classroom!) The fellows get to lodge together, read their books (some have to read for others, since not all are able to read Spanish … it is their second language – Panao Quechua is their heart language) and discuss together, and enjoy three healthy meals together each day. Crossroads is blessed to help with this portion of the effort, as well. For a small investment of $200, we are able to provide all of the meals for everyone for five days.
So, this first session of the seminary included two foundational courses. Mi hombre, Dr. Adams (he’s a retired anesthesiologist – too young to be retired, but retired nonetheless because of an accident involving a chain saw nine years ago) taught the first course, Panorama of the Bible, a basic Bible overview. I taught the second class, Christian Doctrine. It was a wonderful, tough, tiring, rewarding experiences. The men (and two women, too!) were terrific, inquisitive students. Our discussions and debates (especially the discussions on predestination, free will, etc…) carried well into each break and meal time. Some were pretty rowdy, as we had students from different denominational backgrounds, including the Peruvian Evangelical Church, the Assemblies of God, and the Christian and Missionary Alliance. All totaled, we trained 28 students. Our youngest was fifteen. His name is Fabio, and he attended our classes each day, right up until he had to report for his regular school at 1:00 pm. What a testimony! And our oldest student was a gentleman named Julian – at the ripe young age of 84!
Edmin and the other leaders have already put in their course requests for November. They want us to teach a course on hermeneutics (the want to leanr how to rightly interpret the Scriptures!) and a course on cults and sects (since they are already finding their way into Pachitea). Dennis and I are already searching for books and making preparations.
Meanwhile, we are preparing for our other teams in 2009. We have five men leaving next weekend to do evangelism in the VERY high altitude, VERY remote villages. They are truly going to the ends of the earth. In July we have three women going to do ministyr and training with Quechua women and children in four area churches. Then in August we have a veterinary team going to minister and share the Gospel in some more remote farming villages. Our strategy is in full force, and we are praying fervently for a Church Planting Movement. I invite you to pray with us, as well.
The picture included with the post is our “class photo” from these first courses. I’m the tall gringo in the back … but Dennis sort of blends right in. (Grin)
Here are some more pictures for your enjoyment …
Dennis teaching.
Edmin Leon and me. Edmin is the president and organizer of the school. He is a mere 24
years of age, and a translator for SIL … working to translate the New Testament into the
language of his people. An incredible godly young man!!
Myself teaching the doctrine class.
The ladies of the Alllianza Church in Molinos, preparing a hearty lunch for the men.
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Geoff,
After yall teach them Bible/Baptist doctrine for a week, who teaches them the rest of the time? I mean, an interdenominational seminary is kind of an oxymoron; is it not? Someone’s doctrine is being taught, no matter what you call it. It’s either Arminian, or Calvinist, or something in between. It’s either Charismatic, or non-charismatic, or something in between. But, somebody’s doctrine is being taught….correct?
David
I have the same question that David has above. Our Baptist church is being introduced to Bible Study material that is interdenominational from Group.com. In my resistance, I looked up “Interdenominational” and the one big word that stood out was “COMPROMISE”.
Looks like you are doing a good work, however, doctrine has been a big issue within the scripture. I would like to have other comments pro or con on interdenominationalism. Thank you
I had the opportunity to do something similar many years ago in Tanzania. It was a life-changing experience.
I love the cooperative effort!
David,
We teach them solid, Biblical doctrine while we’re there. I make no apologies for teaching them from a Baptistic perspective. And they appreciate and respect that.
The remarkable thing is that, once one gets outside the United States (in general) and the deep south (in particular), most believers are far more centered upon the things that unite them (Jesus, salvation, brotherhood, the Bible, unity) than the things which divide them. It is quite a beautiful sight to see. How I wish that we could experience that kind of brotherhood and unity here in our country. How sad that I have to travel to another hemisphere to find true, deep, biblical, eternal unity with brothers and sisters in Christ … from other denominations, no less. And all the while I have Southern Baptists with “good doctrine” across town who won’t even talk to me. Hmmm … somethng doesn’t compute.
What’s so awesome about an opportunity like this is that I have those little snapshots … brief opportunities … to stand before these people as a respected teacher and dispel many of the false doctrines and heresies that have infected and continue to attack within some of their churches. We spent a lot of time dealing with such subjects (ergo the cults and sects course in the fall).
Frankly, I do not at all see an interdenominational school of missiology / pastor training as oxymoronic. I see it as an opportunity to bring sound teaching and correction where it may be needed.
As far as when we’re gone … we pray for them and encourage them, and we let the Holy Spirit be their teacher. We figure that He will do just fine. My understanding of the sovereignty of God is that great.
This is a Kingdom effort. We trust the King of Kings to rule it. We don’t have to keep control … God is in control.
Geoff
Geoff,
Dont get me wrong. I’m thrilled that they hear good, sound, Bible teaching for a week. That’s good. I’m glad that you’re giving them sound, Bible teaching. But, the interdenominational thing is an oxymoron. There’s no such bird this side of Heaven.
We could have complete unity here in the states as well. But alas, you have some people who want to sprinkle for convenience sake, instead of baptising in the Bible way. And, you have some people who want to preach that a Christian can lose his salvation, instead of believing the Bible that salvation is an eternal work of grace in the heart of man. We have people who want to preach and teach that salvation is by grace thru faith, but then you have to work like the dickens to keep saved. And, you have some people who want to embrace feminism, and they believe that women can pastor a Church, in direct violation of the Word of God. And, the list of theological errors goes on and on that some people want to cling to, instead of accepting the truth of God.
How can we possibly join together with people who want to hold to such errors, and even heresies in some instances? I dont see it.
David
Brother Geoff,
Glory to God for this great thing He has orchestrated! And thank you and your local congregation for the willingness to be involved at the level you are. May His Spirit continue to work powerfully in and through you and all those involved!!
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
Brother Geoff,
Interesting stuff…. I always wonder why we get so wrapped up in formalities like forming “Interdenominational School’s of Missiology”. It seems that sometimes we feel the need to put titles on something in order to organize it or get money for it. Its the American way I guess…. I love it that these men were running in and out, doing their business as they should, and were willing to work in the night to understand the Word of God. Now that is something you don’t see to much in America…since we have “Dancing with the Stars” and all.
What I find so refreshing about your post and as I looked at the faces of the Peruvians, is that God has called these men and women out of death and into life. Wow! That fact I hope will overshadow the formalities and lead these local churches to mature with leadership and the spirit to dig into the scriptures for years to come. It is a privilege to be asked to participate and disciple these men and women. I also hope that these men and women realize that twelve weeks of curriculum is nothing really….but a lifetime of obedience to the Christ and His Word is the foundation for maturity and will birth right teaching. For heaven’s sake we have Baptist churches down the street from me in Tennessee that need that twelve week primer in doctrine and a clear beginning point for right doctrine.
I hope you guys hang in there and consistently teach these precious children of God right doctrine. Right doctrine can win out in the midst of confusion, but it takes willing souls and gifted teachers to continue down the path of rightly dividing the Word of God.
Blessings,
Chris
Geoff,
Blessings to you for your efforts in this great ministry! I have been doing similar work–primarily in Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Venezuela–for years and I share your excitement for such vital work. I have also felt the tensions that the brothers mentioned in their comments above. However, I came to see that anything we teach these brothers about the Truth and sound doctrine will be more than they had before we got there. Of course, it would be great if we could just teach them with solid SBC men and not let them go until they are profoundly saturated with all the truth from God’s Word, but that is not possible for a host of reasons. I appreciate what you’re doing. If I can ever help or be aof any assistance, pleae let me know. Keep up the good work.
Grace and peace,
David Sills
Geoff,
I like your comments and agree. The only mission work I have seen was, “Beyond the Next Mountain”. That true story (movie) supports God’s sovereignty as you mentioned. I didn’t mean to distract from the fresh work you have been involve in. I praise God for the Spirit’s transformation of lives in the purest form.
I would like to see someone post something about Interdenominationism here in America at another time. You see, we have the right doctrine that has been traditionalized and now we are being exposed to a “Compromise” of doctrine. That will infect the American church not produce unity that you see where the Gospel is fresh and new to a culture.
Thanks again,
Bruce
Chris,
It wasn’t our American idea to start and name the school. The local pastors came up with the entire thing. Indeed, the whole endeavor is their idea. It seems that, in their culture, leaders are expected to have some lever of training … a “credential,” if you will. This is especially true for pastors, or anyone who would seek to plant a church.
This semi-formal school gives them the opportunity to have some sound training and earn a credential (certificate) after three years of part-time study. I, personally, think the local pastors had a brilliant idea.
You said … “For heaven’s sake we have Baptist churches down the street from me in Tennessee that need that twelve week primer in doctrine and a clear beginning point for right doctrine.”
To which I say, “Amen, brother!”
Geoff
Dr. Sills,
Thank you for the kind words. Indeed, I understand the tension. But who could pass on such an opportunity to teach right doctrine and dispel falsehoods? I count it a privilege to go to this place each April and November to teach and have fellowship with these brothers in Christ.
And you will hear much about it in a couple of years when the first copies of my dissertation start rolling your way …
(Explanation to all – Dr. Sills has graciously agrees to serve on my dissertation committee at Western Seminary. No one on the faculty there has experience in Latin America, and Dr. Sills’ church is also a REAP partnering church.)
Geoff
Geoff,
Sounds like a fantastic opportunity!
They may have already pretty much settled in on their curriculum. But, if not, you (and they) ought to check out the Omega Course materials, which are specifically designed for this type of thing.
You can download the entire course in English, Spanish, and about 30 other languages here:
http://www.sallee.info/Omega_Course.html
Who is the guy losing his hair? At least mine is just grey
Rob
Brother Geoff,
Please pardon my quick assumption…. it sounds like the local men are wanting some accountability.. a good thing to want!
Blessings,
Chris
Geoff, you said, “The remarkable thing is that, once one gets outside the United States (in general) and the deep south (in particular), most believers are far more centered upon the things that unite them (Jesus, salvation, brotherhood, the Bible, unity) than the things which divide them. It is quite a beautful sight to see.”
That was my experience as an MK as well.
It is also somewhat true in Iowa, where the evangelical world is much smaller. We do not have the luxury of being isolationist here – at least not if we want to keep our sanity.
This is exciting to see churches like your own to take on an entire people group. Training them like you are attempting to do will have far greater impact than trying to “win” the people yourselves.
I would be interested in what you are teaching. You mentioned doctrinal issues, but are you teaching practical things as well?
When you finish with the Panao Quechua in three-years, we have dubs on you here in Ecuador!
David Rogers,
Thanks for the Omega Course link above. This is very helpful. As I write I am downloading the materials in another tab to examine more carefully.
Gracias por compartir tu historia. Thanks for sharing your story. I went on to interdenominational mission trips to Peru in 2003 and 2004. I was in the middle of Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Pentecostals, and even a Catholic. It really helped me learn about unity and division and the shared beliefs we all have.
Although it was like getting a breath of fresh air whenever I could get together with my Baptist cronies, the discussions with my interdenominational friends helped me round out some of my beliefs. When we had disagreement, we had discussion, but hardly an argument about it. Getting multiple perspectives on passages and doctrines can help you develop your own beliefs. Ultimately our own beliefs on some of the more controversial scriptures and doctrines are confirmed through the Spirit and by what makes sense.
Sometimes I think we as Baptists like to believe that we are the enlightened ones and that we have nothing to learn from our brothers and sisters who happen to attend a different church. My goodness. In my hometown I feel more comfortable with what’s preached from the pulpit of the Evangelical Free Church than the Baptist Church. I for one don’t believe that every one of my beliefs are rock-solid, 100% correct. I’m always learning more about our wonderful Savior and the book He has given us. I know that God will hold each of us accountable not only for what we did, but what we believe. I only hope that He doesn’t take us Baptists aside and say, “How could you let disunity over the little things slow the advance of the gospel?”
Besides, if the Baptists weren’t involved in the Andean Interdenominational School of Missiology, who would correct the false teachings and practices of our interdenominational brothers
Andrew and others,
Guess what? I have preached in a Methodist Church many, many times. Does that surprise you? I have a good relationship with the Pentecostal Pastor, the Presbyterian Pastor, and the Methodist Pastor in my town. Does that surprise you? In fact, I grew up in a Methodist Church. Does that surprise you?
Well, I can fellowship with people from all denominations, and I do. I can preach in Churches of other denominations, and I do. And, I rejoice in Geoff and his Church reaching out to the Pastors in Peru, and I hope that the week that they are up there will help those Pastors learn Biblical truth, or at least, get them thinking about it.
But, I am always concerned about sound doctrine being promoted and taught and advanced. I’ve seen what unsound doctrine does to people and churches and denominations. It’s never good. It’s always bad. I guess that’s one of the reasons that I have such a passion for sound doctrine…of course, the main reason is because I love the Lord, and to love the Lord means that we will love His truth.
Thus, that’s why I could not start a seminary with a Catholic, nor with a Methodist. That’s why I could not start Churches with a Pentecostal, nor with a Presbyterian. I wish that they would see the light and believe sound, Bible doctrine. But alas, they wont. They are sold out to tongue speaking, and baptising babies, and sprinkling, and worshipping Mary and the Saints, and Arminian theology, etc. That’s why I cannot start Churches with them, nor would I want CP dollars, nor my Churches money, going towards starting a seminary with them. Fellowship with them. Yes. Of course. Treat them good. Yes. Of course. Pray for the nation or the town with them. Yes. Of course. Start a food and clothes pantry ministry with them. Yes. Of course. But, when it comes to making sure that the true Gospel is being preached, and Pastors are being trained to teach thier people, and churches are being started that will influence people and areas with the truth of God’s Word; then no. I could not join with people who preach works salvation and Saint worship, like the Catholics. I could not join with people who believe that babies should be baptised, like the Presbyterians. I could not join with people who believe that you must speak in tongues as a demonstration that you’re saved, and that you can lose your salvation, like the Pentecostals.
How can/could yall?
David
I think that the challenge of interdenominational ministry is the focus, and David (Volfan007) has a good point. After all, Paul himself suggested that those who insisted on circumcision for gentile converts should castrate themselves (Gal 5:11-12). Strong words for a pivotal point: doctrine is not fluff. I commend David on that, and I agree that interdenominational workings should be addressed in a subsequent post.
Where do we draw the line? That is one of the biggest questions facing missionaries overseas. Resources and believers are often scarce. When I was in Spain, I learned that less than ½ of 1% of the population are believers. Some ministries over there have sought to target the Muslim minority instead of the general population because they’re seeing more fruit coming from it. What do you do then, when you want to reach people with the gospel? Do you partner with others who don’t hold the same views?
Honestly, sometimes compromise isn’t a bad thing, but ultimately I believe that much of our interdenominational workings are up to Christian liberty. Paul spoke of people not eating meat sacrificed to idols because they felt it was sinful to do so. In the same way, I would not want someone to throw their efforts and resources into an interdenominational effort to train up pastors in a spiritually empty region if they felt the gospel of Christ was being compromised. But I believe that part of it is also up to your conscience. I knew a pastor who didn’t want to force new church members to be re-baptized if they were sprinkled or poured on after they accepted Christ—that is to say, a believer’s “baptism.” Did I agree with him? No. But I also believe that is a matter of grace. I could still partner with him to train others up in the faith, and as long as I can present my views, or at least, as long as both views are presented, I can leave the rest up to the Spirit to convict those in training of the correct course. Why? Because it is not a salvation issue, that is, it doesn’t affect whether or not someone is saved.
There are true believers in most all denominations (though, I must admit, finding a Christian in the Catholic Church sure surprised me). There are some Lutherans who “baptize” infants as a form of dedication to God, with the understanding that it has no relation to salvation. I’d rather partner with a Lutheran who does that than a Baptist who believes that you’re not saved unless you are baptized. My point is that not all Pentecostals believe you should speak in tongues as a sign of your faith or that you can lose your salvation. Not all Lutherans believe infant baptism saves you.
Under most circumstances, I probably wouldn’t work together in the training up of the saints with members of other denominations that have questionable and/or heretical teachings. But when I was in high school we formed a student group that got together weekly. We prayed together, sang together, and had different people speak to us a message from the word. Once in a while we had a pastor come, but most of the time it was the students. Since I was in charge, I tried to make sure that those issues of infant baptism and losing your salvation were not taught, but I did let students and/or pastors from the Reformed Church, Evangelical Free, and Assemblies of God teach us and bring us the Word. Why? Because one of two things could happen: either no teaching would occur, which I didn’t want, or false teachings could have crept in. Though I don’t believe that all my beliefs are infallible, I believe that I make a better impact when I’m involved than when I’m not. In those situations, it is better to work with people who hold different beliefs than to let them run amok.
To wrap this up, I in no way encourage people to work together with those of other denominations who hold heretical teachings. I encourage all to give each other (within this discussion) the judgment of charity and to be abounding in grace. Recognize that for some, there may be more leeway in terms of conscience and Christian liberty than with others.