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	<title>Comments on: Time Out!</title>
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	<description>life :: theology :: church :: ministry :: missions :: worship</description>
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		<title>By: barbara pagano</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2009/04/08/time-out/#comment-11847</link>
		<dc:creator>barbara pagano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2740#comment-11847</guid>
		<description>Providing sabbaticals to rejuvenate, keep and attract talent is a business decision.  Our research indicates that some companies have had their sabbatical programs for many years (McDonald&#039;s is in the top spot- 40 years).  The list of Companies on a Quest now numbers over 80 and the concept is gaining wide visibility (meaning the list is growing.)

More important, the younger generations aren&#039;t tolerating the &quot;all work-little time left for life&quot; mentality that fueled so many boomers.  I can only assume that churches are looking ahead to the talent pool and want to make decisions that are good for their future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Providing sabbaticals to rejuvenate, keep and attract talent is a business decision.  Our research indicates that some companies have had their sabbatical programs for many years (McDonald&#8217;s is in the top spot- 40 years).  The list of Companies on a Quest now numbers over 80 and the concept is gaining wide visibility (meaning the list is growing.)</p>
<p>More important, the younger generations aren&#8217;t tolerating the &#8220;all work-little time left for life&#8221; mentality that fueled so many boomers.  I can only assume that churches are looking ahead to the talent pool and want to make decisions that are good for their future.</p>
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		<title>By: Taran</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2009/04/08/time-out/#comment-11846</link>
		<dc:creator>Taran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2740#comment-11846</guid>
		<description>A great resource John.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great resource John.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: John M. Yeats</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2009/04/08/time-out/#comment-11845</link>
		<dc:creator>John M. Yeats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 22:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2740#comment-11845</guid>
		<description>This post is very late to the discussion, but I couldn&#039;t resist passing on this information since no one else passed it on.

Pastors need sabbaticals and rest.  Period.  For those of you ready, but you or your church don&#039;t have the financial means, check out the incredible Lilly Endowment program for pastoral renewal.  http://www.lillyendowment.org/religion_ncr.html

Several of my mentors in ministry took advantage of this and God used it to rejuvenate their ministry and the church even grew while they took advantage of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is very late to the discussion, but I couldn&#8217;t resist passing on this information since no one else passed it on.</p>
<p>Pastors need sabbaticals and rest.  Period.  For those of you ready, but you or your church don&#8217;t have the financial means, check out the incredible Lilly Endowment program for pastoral renewal.  <a href="http://www.lillyendowment.org/religion_ncr.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lillyendowment.org/religion_ncr.html</a></p>
<p>Several of my mentors in ministry took advantage of this and God used it to rejuvenate their ministry and the church even grew while they took advantage of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Taran</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2009/04/08/time-out/#comment-11844</link>
		<dc:creator>Taran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 22:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2740#comment-11844</guid>
		<description>Roger,

I take full responsibility for any confusion.  I think that few churches are in a position where they could offer their pastor a sabbatical of either a year or six months duration (the typical options in the academic world).

I think four weeks after five years and eight after ten would be reasonable.  Just to be clear, this would be in &lt;b&gt;addition&lt;/b&gt; to any vacation time they already had.  I have no problem with using the term vacation.

Jim,

Your pastor is quite blessed to have such a caring congregation.  Although I certainly believe that the pastor is called to minister to the congregation, I believe equally strongly that the congregation is called to minister to the pastor.  It’s nice to see your church honoring that calling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger,</p>
<p>I take full responsibility for any confusion.  I think that few churches are in a position where they could offer their pastor a sabbatical of either a year or six months duration (the typical options in the academic world).</p>
<p>I think four weeks after five years and eight after ten would be reasonable.  Just to be clear, this would be in <b>addition</b> to any vacation time they already had.  I have no problem with using the term vacation.</p>
<p>Jim,</p>
<p>Your pastor is quite blessed to have such a caring congregation.  Although I certainly believe that the pastor is called to minister to the congregation, I believe equally strongly that the congregation is called to minister to the pastor.  It’s nice to see your church honoring that calling.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Champion</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2009/04/08/time-out/#comment-11843</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Champion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 21:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2740#comment-11843</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m real late to this discussion - and a deacon at that.

Our church has one of the hardest working people that I have ever met as our pastor.  He is a great student and expositor, spends many hours visiting and &quot;doing&quot; ministry - not just locked up in his office.  He goes to camp with our pre teens, works in VBS and spends time with the youth and senior adults.

We worry that we will burn him out.  As a result we encourage him to take a full weekend off every six weeks or so.  We put money in the budget for substitutes to fill the pulpit when he does take off.  We also protect his fridays and unless it is a true emergency a deacon or other staff member will get the call.

After six years at our church we gave him a three week sabatical that was in addition to his vacation, we also raised money to send him on an extended mission trip (his choice) for his sabbatical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m real late to this discussion &#8211; and a deacon at that.</p>
<p>Our church has one of the hardest working people that I have ever met as our pastor.  He is a great student and expositor, spends many hours visiting and &#8220;doing&#8221; ministry &#8211; not just locked up in his office.  He goes to camp with our pre teens, works in VBS and spends time with the youth and senior adults.</p>
<p>We worry that we will burn him out.  As a result we encourage him to take a full weekend off every six weeks or so.  We put money in the budget for substitutes to fill the pulpit when he does take off.  We also protect his fridays and unless it is a true emergency a deacon or other staff member will get the call.</p>
<p>After six years at our church we gave him a three week sabatical that was in addition to his vacation, we also raised money to send him on an extended mission trip (his choice) for his sabbatical.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Simpson</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2009/04/08/time-out/#comment-11842</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Simpson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2740#comment-11842</guid>
		<description>Taran:

At least for me, and maybe for others, there is confusion regarding what the term &quot;sabbatical&quot; means. I have always understood the term to apply to extended time away from daily operations -- such as six months to a year. You apply the term to an occasional vacation of four to eight weeks.

Given your definition of what a &quot;sabbatical&quot; is, then I retract my statement that a sabbatical is &quot;elitest&quot; for pastors. To me taking four weeks at five years and eight weeks at ten years is not a &quot;sabbatical&quot; -- just an extended vacation on certain anniversary years. Vacations like this are somewhat &quot;common&quot; in industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taran:</p>
<p>At least for me, and maybe for others, there is confusion regarding what the term &#8220;sabbatical&#8221; means. I have always understood the term to apply to extended time away from daily operations &#8212; such as six months to a year. You apply the term to an occasional vacation of four to eight weeks.</p>
<p>Given your definition of what a &#8220;sabbatical&#8221; is, then I retract my statement that a sabbatical is &#8220;elitest&#8221; for pastors. To me taking four weeks at five years and eight weeks at ten years is not a &#8220;sabbatical&#8221; &#8212; just an extended vacation on certain anniversary years. Vacations like this are somewhat &#8220;common&#8221; in industry.</p>
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		<title>By: Tara</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2009/04/08/time-out/#comment-11841</link>
		<dc:creator>Tara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 19:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2740#comment-11841</guid>
		<description>Chris,

Amen and Amen!  I could not agree more.  Thank you again for the conversation and may God continue to bless you and your ministry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>Amen and Amen!  I could not agree more.  Thank you again for the conversation and may God continue to bless you and your ministry.</p>
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		<title>By: Tara</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2009/04/08/time-out/#comment-11840</link>
		<dc:creator>Tara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 19:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2740#comment-11840</guid>
		<description>William,
I think we’re on the same page as far as initial discussions with the search committee.  But I don’t think it would be that difficult to ask if the church has a policy for sabbatical leave.  And if they’ve never heard of one, you could spark some investigation on their part.

I think I’ve addressed most of the points you raised earlier on and will not rehash them here.  But I do want to address one more that you mention: elitism charge.

Maybe it is because of its association with academia, but I fail to see how this is elitist.  So let me first note (again) that the concept of a sabbatical is a biblical term, taken over and appropriated by the University.  What I’m suggesting is for a restoration of that term to its proper context.

Your basis for the charge of elitism is that “the pastor would be receiving something his members have no hope to ever receive”.  Two quick thoughts.  &lt;b&gt;First&lt;/b&gt;, as a member of a congregation who loves its pastor, I want to express that love to him any way that we can.  Because of that fact, I may be willing to give him something that I’ve never received myself.  &lt;b&gt;Second&lt;/b&gt;, why would a church want to limit itself to what the world offers?!  I’ve had many secular jobs, but I’ve never received a pounding at any of them.  I’ve had many jobs, but never received a housing allowance at any of them.  I’ve had many jobs, but never been the recipient of a money tree at any of them.  (Full disclosure: as an Intentional Interim I’ve received all three of these.  Plus banana pudding).  Merely because the business world doesn’t acknowledge the benefit of these things, why would I then reject any of these for my pastor?

Four weeks at a pastor’s fifth anniversary (for example) and eight weeks at his tenth seems a reasonable (and cheap!) gift to the pastor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William,<br />
I think we’re on the same page as far as initial discussions with the search committee.  But I don’t think it would be that difficult to ask if the church has a policy for sabbatical leave.  And if they’ve never heard of one, you could spark some investigation on their part.</p>
<p>I think I’ve addressed most of the points you raised earlier on and will not rehash them here.  But I do want to address one more that you mention: elitism charge.</p>
<p>Maybe it is because of its association with academia, but I fail to see how this is elitist.  So let me first note (again) that the concept of a sabbatical is a biblical term, taken over and appropriated by the University.  What I’m suggesting is for a restoration of that term to its proper context.</p>
<p>Your basis for the charge of elitism is that “the pastor would be receiving something his members have no hope to ever receive”.  Two quick thoughts.  <b>First</b>, as a member of a congregation who loves its pastor, I want to express that love to him any way that we can.  Because of that fact, I may be willing to give him something that I’ve never received myself.  <b>Second</b>, why would a church want to limit itself to what the world offers?!  I’ve had many secular jobs, but I’ve never received a pounding at any of them.  I’ve had many jobs, but never received a housing allowance at any of them.  I’ve had many jobs, but never been the recipient of a money tree at any of them.  (Full disclosure: as an Intentional Interim I’ve received all three of these.  Plus banana pudding).  Merely because the business world doesn’t acknowledge the benefit of these things, why would I then reject any of these for my pastor?</p>
<p>Four weeks at a pastor’s fifth anniversary (for example) and eight weeks at his tenth seems a reasonable (and cheap!) gift to the pastor.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Johnson</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2009/04/08/time-out/#comment-11839</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2740#comment-11839</guid>
		<description>Brother Taran,

After reading through your post once again, I do sense your heart of compassion for the man of God and that he be rested so that the church overall can benefit from God’s call on his life.  So, please know that I am not taking a swat at that loving spirit,…because after all that is what we would all hope the congregation might understand about its leadership.

Being raised Southern Baptist for my entire adult life and working in the church since about age sixteen, I became desensitized early on as I saw Pastors often looking for excuses.  It is very possible that I was working inside a fishbowl and that of all the Pastors I met ..the ten men complaining were the only ten men in the SBC that were complaining….but, I might be wrong and there may be more than ten that are tired and hoping someone will come to their rescue or just leave them alone.

Your article has helped me affirm several things,

1.	That a man of God does need to have order and rest in his life to be an effective leader.
2.	A man of God, certainly not being perfect or “super-Saint” as Vol has espoused, may need a nudge from someone or a few in the congregation to evaluate some time off…. That’s not a bad thing at all, and hopefully he has some men to hold him accountable in this way.
3.	That Christ instructed his disciples to rest (Mark)…. probably for just the night or to escape from the masses, but nonetheless our Savior saw an importance to being rested.
4.	That the Pastor should teach of this need early on with the congregation and other Pastors in the fellowship, so that later on it does not result in wrong implications about his resolve and character as a man of God.

Its not an easy life,...the life of a man of God leading the church and could end in early death.  Counting the cost is important!  Ignoring the call is even worse.  May the men of God be resolved to lead and feed the sheep.

Philippians 3:7-11  But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.  (8)  More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,  (9)  and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,  (10)  that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;  (11)  in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.


Thank you again for the post,…
Blessings,
Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brother Taran,</p>
<p>After reading through your post once again, I do sense your heart of compassion for the man of God and that he be rested so that the church overall can benefit from God’s call on his life.  So, please know that I am not taking a swat at that loving spirit,…because after all that is what we would all hope the congregation might understand about its leadership.</p>
<p>Being raised Southern Baptist for my entire adult life and working in the church since about age sixteen, I became desensitized early on as I saw Pastors often looking for excuses.  It is very possible that I was working inside a fishbowl and that of all the Pastors I met ..the ten men complaining were the only ten men in the SBC that were complaining….but, I might be wrong and there may be more than ten that are tired and hoping someone will come to their rescue or just leave them alone.</p>
<p>Your article has helped me affirm several things,</p>
<p>1.	That a man of God does need to have order and rest in his life to be an effective leader.<br />
2.	A man of God, certainly not being perfect or “super-Saint” as Vol has espoused, may need a nudge from someone or a few in the congregation to evaluate some time off…. That’s not a bad thing at all, and hopefully he has some men to hold him accountable in this way.<br />
3.	That Christ instructed his disciples to rest (Mark)…. probably for just the night or to escape from the masses, but nonetheless our Savior saw an importance to being rested.<br />
4.	That the Pastor should teach of this need early on with the congregation and other Pastors in the fellowship, so that later on it does not result in wrong implications about his resolve and character as a man of God.</p>
<p>Its not an easy life,&#8230;the life of a man of God leading the church and could end in early death.  Counting the cost is important!  Ignoring the call is even worse.  May the men of God be resolved to lead and feed the sheep.</p>
<p>Philippians 3:7-11  But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.  (8)  More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,  (9)  and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,  (10)  that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;  (11)  in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.</p>
<p>Thank you again for the post,…<br />
Blessings,<br />
Chris</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2009/04/08/time-out/#comment-11838</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2740#comment-11838</guid>
		<description>A late, stray note on this subject:

I have never hesitated to discuss salary, pastorium-related issues that involve loss of equity in a home, retirement, vacation, social security offsets, and health insurance matters with a church or search committee because virtually every one of those individuals deals with the same things. Raising the issue of a prolonged absence from work would be something that none of them has experienced. To bring that up in the pastor search process would be imprudent.

Churches that have a good relationship with their pastor are willing to accommodate additional study, occasional extra time for mission trips and the like. Sabbaticals are elitist in that the pastor would be receiving something his members have no hope to ever receive - extended time away from a job for personal development or whatever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A late, stray note on this subject:</p>
<p>I have never hesitated to discuss salary, pastorium-related issues that involve loss of equity in a home, retirement, vacation, social security offsets, and health insurance matters with a church or search committee because virtually every one of those individuals deals with the same things. Raising the issue of a prolonged absence from work would be something that none of them has experienced. To bring that up in the pastor search process would be imprudent.</p>
<p>Churches that have a good relationship with their pastor are willing to accommodate additional study, occasional extra time for mission trips and the like. Sabbaticals are elitist in that the pastor would be receiving something his members have no hope to ever receive &#8211; extended time away from a job for personal development or whatever.</p>
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