Comments on: Church Leadership Training Structures http://sbcimpact.org/2009/02/04/church-leadership-training-structures/ life :: theology :: church :: ministry :: missions :: worship Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:40:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Chris Johnson http://sbcimpact.org/2009/02/04/church-leadership-training-structures/#comment-2879 Chris Johnson Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:02:06 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2230#comment-2879 Brother Bob, Thanks for the link....good article! Blessings, Chris Brother Bob,

Thanks for the link….good article!

Blessings,
Chris

]]> By: Bob Allen http://sbcimpact.org/2009/02/04/church-leadership-training-structures/#comment-2878 Bob Allen Wed, 04 Feb 2009 19:16:37 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2230#comment-2878 Great topic and well-written blog, David. As I read, I immediately thought about Al Jackson's mentoring program at Lakeview Baptist in Auburn. There's a link to Al's description of this in the "9Marks: Seminaries Within the Church" link that you put at the end -- here's the direct link: <a href="http://www.9marks.org/CC/article/0,,PTID314526|CHID598014|CIID2463786,00.html" rel="nofollow">"Look, It's the Church's Job"</a> The program at Lakeview is a blend of church-based mentoring and traditional seminary (SBTS) but it's all based at Lakeview and very hands-on by the Lakeview staff. The personnel in our region (CESA) who have gone through Al's mentoring program have been top notch in every respect. Great topic and well-written blog, David. As I read, I immediately thought about Al Jackson’s mentoring program at Lakeview Baptist in Auburn. There’s a link to Al’s description of this in the “9Marks: Seminaries Within the Church” link that you put at the end — here’s the direct link: “Look, It’s the Church’s Job”

The program at Lakeview is a blend of church-based mentoring and traditional seminary (SBTS) but it’s all based at Lakeview and very hands-on by the Lakeview staff. The personnel in our region (CESA) who have gone through Al’s mentoring program have been top notch in every respect.

]]> By: Dave Miller http://sbcimpact.org/2009/02/04/church-leadership-training-structures/#comment-2877 Dave Miller Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:54:50 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2230#comment-2877 In Iowa, SBC churches tend to be very pastor-dependent. A pastor come and clicks with the church. The church grows, the pastor leaves, and the church dwindles. This story has been played out over and over again. Churches always need a strong pastor leading them, equipping them. But that pastor needs to lead the sheep, not dominate them. He needs to work to raise up leaders who can carry on the ministry when he is gone. I believe that a concept of pastoral authority popular among some conservatives(I'm the pastor, do what I say without question or you are disobeying God)is not healthy to the ongoing growth of the church. The authoritarian pastor may run the church effectively (or not) but when he leaves, the leadership vacuum is dramatic. In Iowa, SBC churches tend to be very pastor-dependent. A pastor come and clicks with the church. The church grows, the pastor leaves, and the church dwindles. This story has been played out over and over again.

Churches always need a strong pastor leading them, equipping them. But that pastor needs to lead the sheep, not dominate them. He needs to work to raise up leaders who can carry on the ministry when he is gone.

I believe that a concept of pastoral authority popular among some conservatives(I’m the pastor, do what I say without question or you are disobeying God)is not healthy to the ongoing growth of the church.

The authoritarian pastor may run the church effectively (or not) but when he leaves, the leadership vacuum is dramatic.

]]> By: Chris Johnson http://sbcimpact.org/2009/02/04/church-leadership-training-structures/#comment-2876 Chris Johnson Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:49:46 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2230#comment-2876 Brother David, Another quick comment.... I read through the Seminary President's comments at 9 Marks Ministry on the theme of raising up Pastors. Their comments are so very indicative of the problem. Maybe it was the question they were asked, but none of them addressed the issue of raising up Pastors outside the context of their seminary. I realize they are there to sell their seminary,....but what a missed opportunity to encourage the churches in the same manner as the Apostle Paul has commanded. That was interesting to me at least... Blessings, Chris Brother David,

Another quick comment…. I read through the Seminary President’s comments at 9 Marks Ministry on the theme of raising up Pastors. Their comments are so very indicative of the problem. Maybe it was the question they were asked, but none of them addressed the issue of raising up Pastors outside the context of their seminary. I realize they are there to sell their seminary,….but what a missed opportunity to encourage the churches in the same manner as the Apostle Paul has commanded.

That was interesting to me at least…

Blessings,
Chris

]]> By: Chris Johnson http://sbcimpact.org/2009/02/04/church-leadership-training-structures/#comment-2875 Chris Johnson Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:34:47 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2230#comment-2875 Brother David, You have brought forward excellent examples of churches following the norm of scriptural instruction from Paul to Timothy and Titus and all the churches. The drum I keep beating is that it becomes very easy to follow a traditional more pragmatic, misguided selfish norm of maintaining a single overseer in the church, while disregarding the obvious norm that was commanded through the Apostles. The Apostle was crystal clear that elders (plural overseers) are what God is blessing the church with at the local level. So, we that are in leadership should be on the hunt for what God has provided. God’s word will not change on this matter. I do agree with you that in some of the SBC seminaries the norm for biblical leadership is not being taught correctly. As I mentioned last week, SWBTS conducted a conference last fall that taught the single pastor model as the norm. This is obviously a different model than what the Apostles taught….but none-the-less it continues to be proposed as the norm to young naïve minds in many of the seminaries. When I confronted the presenter,…. He said that the elder model might work in new congregations, but for already establish churches it would be difficult to change what was in place. So, in effect, he was saying,…that might work for you in a new situation, but the principle would be too difficult to change where tradition has reformed the biblical norm. The practical shame for many Baptist congregations, is that when their singular (Pastor) hits the road,…they scramble for leadership…or go immediately into search committee mode. This is bizarre behavior that is not even addressed in scripture, simply because the norm is to have many men that qualify to lead the congregation. Thankfully the blessing of plural leadership was God’s planning, not ours….or we would revert back to our own pragmatic ways very quickly and become lone rangers. Good post, Blessings, Chris Brother David,

You have brought forward excellent examples of churches following the norm of scriptural instruction from Paul to Timothy and Titus and all the churches. The drum I keep beating is that it becomes very easy to follow a traditional more pragmatic, misguided selfish norm of maintaining a single overseer in the church, while disregarding the obvious norm that was commanded through the Apostles. The Apostle was crystal clear that elders (plural overseers) are what God is blessing the church with at the local level. So, we that are in leadership should be on the hunt for what God has provided. God’s word will not change on this matter.

I do agree with you that in some of the SBC seminaries the norm for biblical leadership is not being taught correctly. As I mentioned last week, SWBTS conducted a conference last fall that taught the single pastor model as the norm. This is obviously a different model than what the Apostles taught….but none-the-less it continues to be proposed as the norm to young naïve minds in many of the seminaries. When I confronted the presenter,…. He said that the elder model might work in new congregations, but for already establish churches it would be difficult to change what was in place. So, in effect, he was saying,…that might work for you in a new situation, but the principle would be too difficult to change where tradition has reformed the biblical norm.

The practical shame for many Baptist congregations, is that when their singular (Pastor) hits the road,…they scramble for leadership…or go immediately into search committee mode. This is bizarre behavior that is not even addressed in scripture, simply because the norm is to have many men that qualify to lead the congregation. Thankfully the blessing of plural leadership was God’s planning, not ours….or we would revert back to our own pragmatic ways very quickly and become lone rangers.

Good post,

Blessings,
Chris

]]>