Comments on: SBC Article in The Tennessean http://sbcimpact.org/2009/01/18/sbc-article-in-the-tennessean/ life :: theology :: church :: ministry :: missions :: worship Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:40:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Greg Alford http://sbcimpact.org/2009/01/18/sbc-article-in-the-tennessean/#comment-15453 Greg Alford Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:00:14 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2076#comment-15453 If it makes you feel better I have ministered for over eight years in an association that is predominantly Non-Calvinist and in all that time I have never once been invited to preach in a single one of their pulpits. So I guess it goes both ways. Grace Always, If it makes you feel better I have ministered for over eight years in an association that is predominantly Non-Calvinist and in all that time I have never once been invited to preach in a single one of their pulpits.

So I guess it goes both ways.

Grace Always,

]]> By: volfan007 http://sbcimpact.org/2009/01/18/sbc-article-in-the-tennessean/#comment-15452 volfan007 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:24:17 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2076#comment-15452 Greg, Some of those Founder's types dont even think that nonCalvinists preach a true Gospel. They believe that they are Pelagianists! Or, at least, semi-Pelagianists. Some of those Founders types(not talking about Tom Ascol) believe that nonCalvinists dont believe in grace, nor in the sovereignty of God. And, BTW, Greg, I have dealt with many Founders types...aggressive five pointers...in my life. And yes, they made it a point of fellowship....in terms of accepting you as a fellow preacher who was theologically sound and who really preached the Gospel, or not. I've been there. David Greg,

Some of those Founder’s types dont even think that nonCalvinists preach a true Gospel. They believe that they are Pelagianists! Or, at least, semi-Pelagianists. Some of those Founders types(not talking about Tom Ascol) believe that nonCalvinists dont believe in grace, nor in the sovereignty of God. And, BTW, Greg, I have dealt with many Founders types…aggressive five pointers…in my life. And yes, they made it a point of fellowship….in terms of accepting you as a fellow preacher who was theologically sound and who really preached the Gospel, or not. I’ve been there.

David

]]> By: Greg Alford http://sbcimpact.org/2009/01/18/sbc-article-in-the-tennessean/#comment-15451 Greg Alford Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:52:24 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2076#comment-15451 David, In my original posts all I was saying is that Calvinistic Southern Baptist feel they are treated by Non-Calvinistic Southern Baptist exactly the same way you feel the worldly crowd is treating Southern Baptist. Persecution is a matter of perspective… You said: <i> “I have met many Founders types who were absolutely obsessed with promoting the five points, converting everyone in the SBC to the five points, and who made the five points a point of fellowship.” </i> David I could say the exact same thing about those “Hyper Evangelist” types who are absolutely obsessed with promoting decisions as if praying a prayer, lifting a hand, or filling out a card was synonymous with salvation. They are obsessed with getting decisions, converting everyone in the SBC to their opinions, and make the promoting of decisions a point of fellowship. But I digress… My point was “Persecution is a matter of perspective.” By the way, just who are those Founder types in the SBC who make the five points a point of fellowship? I often hear this charge, but as of yet I have not found anyone able to substantiate this accusation. Has Tom Ascol refused to allow you to take communion at his church, or refused to eat a meal with you or something? The Founders sponsored the Building Bridges Conference, and ask for, but was refused a booth at the John 3:16 Conference so I really don’t think that statement is accurate at all. Grace Always, David,

In my original posts all I was saying is that Calvinistic Southern Baptist feel they are treated by Non-Calvinistic Southern Baptist exactly the same way you feel the worldly crowd is treating Southern Baptist.

Persecution is a matter of perspective…

You said: “I have met many Founders types who were absolutely obsessed with promoting the five points, converting everyone in the SBC to the five points, and who made the five points a point of fellowship.”

David I could say the exact same thing about those “Hyper Evangelist” types who are absolutely obsessed with promoting decisions as if praying a prayer, lifting a hand, or filling out a card was synonymous with salvation. They are obsessed with getting decisions, converting everyone in the SBC to their opinions, and make the promoting of decisions a point of fellowship. But I digress… My point was “Persecution is a matter of perspective.”

By the way, just who are those Founder types in the SBC who make the five points a point of fellowship? I often hear this charge, but as of yet I have not found anyone able to substantiate this accusation. Has Tom Ascol refused to allow you to take communion at his church, or refused to eat a meal with you or something? The Founders sponsored the Building Bridges Conference, and ask for, but was refused a booth at the John 3:16 Conference so I really don’t think that statement is accurate at all.

Grace Always,

]]> By: volfan007 http://sbcimpact.org/2009/01/18/sbc-article-in-the-tennessean/#comment-15450 volfan007 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:19:23 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2076#comment-15450 I didnt preach at the John 3:16 conference. I didnt even attend it. And besides, I dont hate five pointers, nor do I have an anger complex about the five pointers. :) David PS. It's still a tangent, being out in rightfield, if someone is either obsessed with promoting something, or speaking against something. Being obsessed either way is being obsessed with that thing. I have met many Founders types who were absolutely obsessed with promoting the five points, converting everyone in the SBC to the five points, and who made the five points a point of fellowship. Maybe that's why the John 3:16 people felt the need to have thier conference? You reckon? I didnt preach at the John 3:16 conference. I didnt even attend it. And besides, I dont hate five pointers, nor do I have an anger complex about the five pointers.
:)

David

PS. It’s still a tangent, being out in rightfield, if someone is either obsessed with promoting something, or speaking against something. Being obsessed either way is being obsessed with that thing. I have met many Founders types who were absolutely obsessed with promoting the five points, converting everyone in the SBC to the five points, and who made the five points a point of fellowship. Maybe that’s why the John 3:16 people felt the need to have thier conference? You reckon?

]]> By: Greg Alford http://sbcimpact.org/2009/01/18/sbc-article-in-the-tennessean/#comment-15449 Greg Alford Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:13:39 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2076#comment-15449 Some people who are obsessed with hating the five points see everything as a Calvinist - NonCalvinist thing. It's a part of their obsession with hating a system. They preach against the five points (see the John 3:16 Conference) They try to turn everyone away from the five points. They have a anger complex about the five points. It's called a tangent Grace Always, Some people who are obsessed with hating the five points see everything as a Calvinist – NonCalvinist thing. It’s a part of their obsession with hating a system. They preach against the five points (see the John 3:16 Conference) They try to turn everyone away from the five points. They have a anger complex about the five points.

It’s called a tangent

Grace Always,

]]> By: volfan007 http://sbcimpact.org/2009/01/18/sbc-article-in-the-tennessean/#comment-15448 volfan007 Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:01:27 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2076#comment-15448 Some people who are obsessed with the five points see everything as a Calvinist-nonCalvinist thing. It's part of the obsession with a system. They preach the five points. They try to convert everyone to the five points. They have a martyr complex about the five points. It's called a tangent. David Some people who are obsessed with the five points see everything as a Calvinist-nonCalvinist thing. It’s part of the obsession with a system. They preach the five points. They try to convert everyone to the five points. They have a martyr complex about the five points.

It’s called a tangent.

David

]]> By: Andrew Wencl http://sbcimpact.org/2009/01/18/sbc-article-in-the-tennessean/#comment-15447 Andrew Wencl Wed, 21 Jan 2009 04:36:18 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2076#comment-15447 I think that y'all are right on the comments. On the one hand, yes, the world will hate us for the gospel. They'll curse us for following Jesus, and some may even think that they're doing God a favor by killing us. On the other hand, the Bible doesn't say that they'll hate us for sexual abuse, condemning before conversing, or for having outrageous pride. Perhaps we should, as a group of believers, consider the accusations against us and say, "Is this because of the gospel, or because of me?" May we find it to be the former more than we find it to be the latter. I think that y’all are right on the comments. On the one hand, yes, the world will hate us for the gospel. They’ll curse us for following Jesus, and some may even think that they’re doing God a favor by killing us. On the other hand, the Bible doesn’t say that they’ll hate us for sexual abuse, condemning before conversing, or for having outrageous pride. Perhaps we should, as a group of believers, consider the accusations against us and say, “Is this because of the gospel, or because of me?” May we find it to be the former more than we find it to be the latter.

]]> By: Greg Alford http://sbcimpact.org/2009/01/18/sbc-article-in-the-tennessean/#comment-15446 Greg Alford Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:31:53 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2076#comment-15446 Volfan007, <i>“Let’s also not forget that our Lord was beaten, and whipped, and nailed to a cross…by the hatefilled, worldly crowd. Can we Southern Baptists expect the world to love us and esteem us, when they hated our Lord?”</i> That is exactly what I told all my fellow Southern Baptist Calvinist after the John 3:16 Conference. Grace Always, Volfan007,

“Let’s also not forget that our Lord was beaten, and whipped, and nailed to a cross…by the hatefilled, worldly crowd.

Can we Southern Baptists expect the world to love us and esteem us, when they hated our Lord?”

That is exactly what I told all my fellow Southern Baptist Calvinist after the John 3:16 Conference.

Grace Always,

]]> By: volfan007 http://sbcimpact.org/2009/01/18/sbc-article-in-the-tennessean/#comment-15445 volfan007 Tue, 20 Jan 2009 03:02:43 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2076#comment-15445 Keith, True, but it was the religious, lost crowd...not by true, genuine Believers. But, what about the Apostle Paul? stoned? whipped? imprisoned? by some of the heathen, worldly crowd. The Apostle John was sent to an island prison by a heathen govt. Read Fox's Book of Martyr's and you'll see many more Believers who were hated by the worldly crowd, as well as the religious, lost crowd. Jesus even told us to not be shocked when the lost crowd will hate us and persecute us and take us to the courts. After all, the worldy crowd hated and persecuted and killed the prophets, and they rejected Him; so, why should we expect anything better? Or, Keith, do you think that the lost, worldly crowd will just clap thier hands and pat you on the back when you go on Oprah and declare that Jesus is the only way to Heaven, or when you make a calm, cool statement that homosexuality is sin against God? Let's see how nice the Oprah crowd is to you when you proclaim such things. Or, how about when you tell them that people having sex outside of the marriage boundaries is sin against a holy God....let's see if they cheer you, or if they boo and hiss at you. I wonder. What do you think? David Keith,

True, but it was the religious, lost crowd…not by true, genuine Believers. But, what about the Apostle Paul? stoned? whipped? imprisoned? by some of the heathen, worldly crowd.

The Apostle John was sent to an island prison by a heathen govt.

Read Fox’s Book of Martyr’s and you’ll see many more Believers who were hated by the worldly crowd, as well as the religious, lost crowd.

Jesus even told us to not be shocked when the lost crowd will hate us and persecute us and take us to the courts. After all, the worldy crowd hated and persecuted and killed the prophets, and they rejected Him; so, why should we expect anything better?

Or, Keith, do you think that the lost, worldly crowd will just clap thier hands and pat you on the back when you go on Oprah and declare that Jesus is the only way to Heaven, or when you make a calm, cool statement that homosexuality is sin against God? Let’s see how nice the Oprah crowd is to you when you proclaim such things. Or, how about when you tell them that people having sex outside of the marriage boundaries is sin against a holy God….let’s see if they cheer you, or if they boo and hiss at you. I wonder. What do you think?

David

]]> By: Keith Price http://sbcimpact.org/2009/01/18/sbc-article-in-the-tennessean/#comment-15444 Keith Price Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:33:55 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=2076#comment-15444 David: “Let’s also not forget that our Lord was beaten, and whipped, and nailed to a cross…by the hatefilled, worldly crowd…” Let’s also remember that those leaders, which did those things to our Lord, were the religious leaders of their day, who were protecting their grip on power. It was not a worldly crowd, but worldly religion. Keith Price David:

“Let’s also not forget that our Lord was beaten, and whipped, and nailed to a cross…by the hatefilled, worldly crowd…”

Let’s also remember that those leaders, which did those things to our Lord, were the religious leaders of their day, who were protecting their grip on power. It was not a worldly crowd, but worldly religion.

Keith Price

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