SBC Article in The Tennessean
Written by: Geoff Baggett
January 18th, 2009
29 Comments
Bob Smietana is penned an article in The Tennessean, Nashville’s daily Newspaper, entitled “Southern Baptists Fight Decline.”
Among other things, Smietana identifies changing demographics (aging congregations with fewer children), stifling of innovation, and declining evangelism as the root causes of membership decline in the SBC. He does, however, recognize the convention’s “bright spot” in the area of growth …. church planting.
It’s an interesting read, particularly because a secular newspaper reporter wrote it. Check it out.
When you look at history, it seems that when Churches and denominations leave sound doctrine, or when doctrine doesnt matter anymore….when it’s not as important.
I believe that the more we stand out from the world….by preaching and teaching the Bible, and by standing on the truth of God’s Word; in spite of what the world thinks…will cause us to reach people and grow…really grow. I’m talking about good growth…not just numbers.
David
It would have been cool if…I don’t know, if someone would have mentioned Jesus.
I just realized that I left off half of a sentence. The end of the first sentence should read…..”then those Churches and denominations decline.”
Sorry….I got in a hurry.
David
“The biggest problem facing Baptists may be that they talk a lot about saving souls, but church members have become reluctant to share their faith. Baptists emphasize believer’s baptism, which means that new converts should be immersed after professing their faith in Jesus Christ.”
I think this statement pretty much says it all.
Did anyone read through the comment stream? Man, there sure are a lot of folks out there with no love lost for Southern Baptists. I know we shouldn’t let the world set our agenda, and a lot of people are just bitter, and probably resisting the conviction of the Holy Spirit; but, still, I think we need to pay attention to what the lost folks we are trying to reach are saying. It breaks my heart.
David:
I’m going to go over there on the Tennessean website and read those comments. It could be that whatever negative comments people are making regarding the SBC are accurate — maybe not.
Roger,
No doubt, it’s a mixed bag. And there are some more positive comments as well. But I do think it is a good idea to listen to what people are saying, even if they are not totally objective.
Here is my evaluation of three themes that I saw from the comments on the Tennessean website. There are the three themes that stuck out to me as being “most representative” of those who are making negative comments.
(1) — Complaints about church becoming “media circus” with power point jumbotron screens and rock bands. My comment: using presentation style to reach people cuts both ways. I’m 65, in the last six month, three couples who are in my wife’s and my Sunday school class (total size about 20 couples) have left because they don’t like the music — i.e. no hymns from the hymnbook. When churches change music styles they are acknowledging that music style is a variable than can potentially affect attendance — however many churches don’t do a cost-benefit anaylsis to see if the “worship wars” really result in a net positive result. This whole idea of “worship wars” has been discussed ad-nausium for decades but it is still being played out in our churches.
(2) — Complaints about Baptists becoming shills for the Republican party and/or conservative political ideas. In my opinion we should back off here because (a) I don’t think is it the job of SBC churches to promote republicans, (b) sometimes stuff that a given republican candidate does puts us in a negative light if there is a perception that we are mindless cheerleaders for the republican party, (c) there are quite a few democrats and independents — are we tacitly saying that they are “persona non-grata” in our churches?
(3) — Complaints about specific Baptists ministers who have been (or alleged to have been) involved in past sexual abuse.
The world hates Christians, especially real ones. They hate Christians who stand on the truth of God’s Word. I’m not surprised in the least that the comment stream was real negative towards Southern Baptists. The world hates us for calling homosexuality sin, for calling sexual sins sin, for preaching that Jesus is the only way to Heaven, etc. Oh, they may say that they dont like us for a host of reasons, or that they even hate us for this and that. But, it all boils down to them not liking us preaching the Gospel and standing against sin. That’s what they really hate.
David
Volfan007.
The world Hates Hypocrisy and that is the problem with most Southern Baptist. We say we are people of the Book, What Book???
Wayne
Psalm 45:2, speaking prophetically of our Lord, says, “Grace flows from your lips.”
Luke 2:52 says, “And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.”
Acts 2:46-47 says, “Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.”
Matthew 5:11 also says, “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.”
And 1 Peter 3:16, “Keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.”
Whenever I read things like I read in the comment stream, I think it is good to keep in mind these verses, do a little self-examination, and ask myself why the people are saying what they are saying.
Rick White nailed it…
FYI – your link to the article is no longer valid. But I was able to get to the artlicle by searching the website and it is still available, just no longer at the link you have. It would help others if you update the link so they can read the article you are referencing.
Thanks, Trish. I wasn’t aware of the change. I’ll get right on it.
David Rogers,
Those verses are good verses, and they should cause us to reflect. But, let’s also not forget that Stephen was stoned, Jeremiah was thrown down into a cistern, Elijah was fearful for his life, Elisha was ridiculed, John spent time on an island prison, Paul spent time in prison, Noah was ridiculed to scorn, the Early Church was persecuted, Christians in the early years were thrown to the lions and their children were placed inside of a sheep’s body to either be torn apart by large dogs, or by lions, and many Christians were burned at the stake or drowned…..all by the worldy crowd.
David
Brother David (Volfan)
You are right to think that gospel consequences radiate from both directions…..
It seems though,…some find it more beneficial to wear the badge of persecution than to speak the Grace of a living God.
Blessings,
Chris
Let’s also not forget that our Lord was beaten, and whipped, and nailed to a cross…by the hatefilled, worldly crowd.
Can we Southern Baptists expect the world to love us and esteem us, when they hated our Lord?
David
By definition the GOSPEL is offensive. However, I try NOT to be.
Clay
David,
The Light of the Gospel all to the Glory of God.
4 Therefore, having this ministry y by the mercy of God, [1] we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God’s word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world d has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants [2] for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Wayne
David:
“Let’s also not forget that our Lord was beaten, and whipped, and nailed to a cross…by the hatefilled, worldly crowd…”
Let’s also remember that those leaders, which did those things to our Lord, were the religious leaders of their day, who were protecting their grip on power. It was not a worldly crowd, but worldly religion.
Keith Price
Keith,
True, but it was the religious, lost crowd…not by true, genuine Believers. But, what about the Apostle Paul? stoned? whipped? imprisoned? by some of the heathen, worldly crowd.
The Apostle John was sent to an island prison by a heathen govt.
Read Fox’s Book of Martyr’s and you’ll see many more Believers who were hated by the worldly crowd, as well as the religious, lost crowd.
Jesus even told us to not be shocked when the lost crowd will hate us and persecute us and take us to the courts. After all, the worldy crowd hated and persecuted and killed the prophets, and they rejected Him; so, why should we expect anything better?
Or, Keith, do you think that the lost, worldly crowd will just clap thier hands and pat you on the back when you go on Oprah and declare that Jesus is the only way to Heaven, or when you make a calm, cool statement that homosexuality is sin against God? Let’s see how nice the Oprah crowd is to you when you proclaim such things. Or, how about when you tell them that people having sex outside of the marriage boundaries is sin against a holy God….let’s see if they cheer you, or if they boo and hiss at you. I wonder. What do you think?
David
Volfan007,
“Let’s also not forget that our Lord was beaten, and whipped, and nailed to a cross…by the hatefilled, worldly crowd.
Can we Southern Baptists expect the world to love us and esteem us, when they hated our Lord?”
That is exactly what I told all my fellow Southern Baptist Calvinist after the John 3:16 Conference.
Grace Always,
I think that y’all are right on the comments. On the one hand, yes, the world will hate us for the gospel. They’ll curse us for following Jesus, and some may even think that they’re doing God a favor by killing us. On the other hand, the Bible doesn’t say that they’ll hate us for sexual abuse, condemning before conversing, or for having outrageous pride. Perhaps we should, as a group of believers, consider the accusations against us and say, “Is this because of the gospel, or because of me?” May we find it to be the former more than we find it to be the latter.
Some people who are obsessed with the five points see everything as a Calvinist-nonCalvinist thing. It’s part of the obsession with a system. They preach the five points. They try to convert everyone to the five points. They have a martyr complex about the five points.
It’s called a tangent.
David
Some people who are obsessed with hating the five points see everything as a Calvinist – NonCalvinist thing. It’s a part of their obsession with hating a system. They preach against the five points (see the John 3:16 Conference) They try to turn everyone away from the five points. They have a anger complex about the five points.
It’s called a tangent
Grace Always,
I didnt preach at the John 3:16 conference. I didnt even attend it. And besides, I dont hate five pointers, nor do I have an anger complex about the five pointers.
:)
David
PS. It’s still a tangent, being out in rightfield, if someone is either obsessed with promoting something, or speaking against something. Being obsessed either way is being obsessed with that thing. I have met many Founders types who were absolutely obsessed with promoting the five points, converting everyone in the SBC to the five points, and who made the five points a point of fellowship. Maybe that’s why the John 3:16 people felt the need to have thier conference? You reckon?
David,
In my original posts all I was saying is that Calvinistic Southern Baptist feel they are treated by Non-Calvinistic Southern Baptist exactly the same way you feel the worldly crowd is treating Southern Baptist.
Persecution is a matter of perspective…
You said: “I have met many Founders types who were absolutely obsessed with promoting the five points, converting everyone in the SBC to the five points, and who made the five points a point of fellowship.”
David I could say the exact same thing about those “Hyper Evangelist” types who are absolutely obsessed with promoting decisions as if praying a prayer, lifting a hand, or filling out a card was synonymous with salvation. They are obsessed with getting decisions, converting everyone in the SBC to their opinions, and make the promoting of decisions a point of fellowship. But I digress… My point was “Persecution is a matter of perspective.”
By the way, just who are those Founder types in the SBC who make the five points a point of fellowship? I often hear this charge, but as of yet I have not found anyone able to substantiate this accusation. Has Tom Ascol refused to allow you to take communion at his church, or refused to eat a meal with you or something? The Founders sponsored the Building Bridges Conference, and ask for, but was refused a booth at the John 3:16 Conference so I really don’t think that statement is accurate at all.
Grace Always,
Greg,
Some of those Founder’s types dont even think that nonCalvinists preach a true Gospel. They believe that they are Pelagianists! Or, at least, semi-Pelagianists. Some of those Founders types(not talking about Tom Ascol) believe that nonCalvinists dont believe in grace, nor in the sovereignty of God. And, BTW, Greg, I have dealt with many Founders types…aggressive five pointers…in my life. And yes, they made it a point of fellowship….in terms of accepting you as a fellow preacher who was theologically sound and who really preached the Gospel, or not. I’ve been there.
David
If it makes you feel better I have ministered for over eight years in an association that is predominantly Non-Calvinist and in all that time I have never once been invited to preach in a single one of their pulpits.
So I guess it goes both ways.
Grace Always,
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