G-d–m America is just for starters as one of his sermon topics. There is even worse. (The born alive bill he opposed as point man 2x is another huge concern. He supports infantacide. Whose next? unproductive old people?)

How can anyone believe that is Christianity?

And what experience does this man really have compared to McCain?

I know he will be elected. God help us. This man is messianic.

And we wonder how the anti christ is going to do it. (Hope, change, etc…and the people fall for it)

I’m processing. . .

This seems to be the right mix of biblical mandates for a Christian to engage the troubled world in the political and societal realms.

No to pacifism, but yes to nonviolence.

We do not wash our hands of oppressed people but insert ourselves, even at our own risk for their well being. Ministers of reconciliation, not agents of war. Wow–it sounds like Jesus, doesn’t it?

Thanks. I think I am more radical than I was just 5 minutes ago.

Together in the Task,

Shane

PS-Having friends serving in Muslim dominated regions has forced me to reconsider my dogged Republican-style, America-first foreign policy that I onced espoused.

Pacifism is unbiblical. We are commanded to help those who are oppressed, not to be passive. However, nonviolence and self-sacrificial love is not unbiblical. It is possible to take nonviolent action in an effort to seek justice. As people of God we should be peacemakers and ministers of reconciliation.

May His peace be yours in every aspect of your life,
From the Middle East

Then we can change the one plank of their platform difficult to swallow–abortion “rights.” There is a small contingent of pro-life libertarians who are very Reagan-esque in their politics.

Could we effectively join them?

Here’s a new case for politics:

Democrats, at their best, believe in and promote “generous” government.

Republicans, at their best, believe in and promote “lean” government.

Libertarians, at their best, believe in and promote “limited” government.

Can’t we balance the three philosophies like this:

Local government: “Generous,” Democratic-style governance, if the locale approves.

State government: “Lean,” Republican-style governance as the state chooses.

Federal government: “Limited,” Libertarian-style governance, giving as much authority to citizens and the several states as possible.

???

Or am I just crazy-thinking?

ps-My reCAPTCHA words are “morbid stand” hahaha

Add “good steward of resources” to my wish list for a presidential candidate on comment #45.

Let’s remember about what volfan said: that Jesus will come and wipe out the armies of this world (of course he’s right–that’s what the Revelation says) and also let’s look at Psalm 110: Every authority will be put under the footstool of Jesus.

That includes the US military. It will be defeated by Jesus. The authority of the US and all the other governments will be replaced by the authority of Christ. “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdom of our Lord!”

Let us remember that we do not belong to the kingdoms of this world–not even America. If we are bought by the blood, then we don’t bleed red, white, and blue. We are only to be in conditional submission to this government as temporarily established by God.

I may have just positioned myself as a traitor or a heretic to some, but I seek to submit myself to the Word of God rather than the popular concepts of civic religion or patriotic-Christianity.

I’m not in concrete on my pacifist-leaning position, but I am solid on the belief that I do not belong to (while I must conditionally submit to) the USA.

I’d love more comments on just war theology. I’ve read a bit on it, but the opinions are so diverse that I’d love some real people’s thoughts on what the Bible teaches in this arena.

Together in the Task,

Shane

I do like to dialogue with you. We have agreed on things in the past and probably will in the future. I will always try hard not to demean you personally and play fair. Your contributions are typically well researched and thought out,…so I enjoy the dialogue.

It is unfortunate that this election in America leaves us with little economic solutions or any responsible direction in government. Neither, Obama or McCain, brings long term fundamental improvements to government. Both are working from essentially the same economic philosophies (one better understood than the other) and misunderstand the benefits of competition and biblical stewardship. So therefore, none will be applied in either of their tenures at the helm. This is truly a frustrating time in American freedom, accentuating the need for the gospel and the peace that accompanies its power to make changes in the heart…and a call to train our children with the truth.

Although it seems that Obama and McCain have little understanding of how to build a “culture of life”, Obama’s fundamental understanding of “rights” should be appalling to any American that truly understands the philosophy employed by the writers of the constitution. Obama, if privileged to work in that original legislative body, would have been overwhelmingly silenced by the American ideal of freedom espoused by the framers, who were not enticed by the incentive of taxation as defining their result as many of today’s elected officials.

Obama’s promise for America seems to be tied only to getting money to induce this so-called future change. He is an astounding speaker and communicator, but has little American ideals. When he says “I am my brothers keeper” he is advancing the governments ability to oversee that advancement, not the brother independent of the government. He uses religious rhetoric to play havoc on the hearts of the emotionally led. It does work.

We would all do well to familiarize ourselves with history and the ten planks of a not too distant past social icon…..
Specifically, Obama’s current self-proclaimed agenda (easy enough to read on his website) supports or is advancing seven, or portions of such, out of the ten tenants of an economy expoused by Marx. Marx was not a simple, confused, or “Koresh” type individual. He was well educated, well respected and a very good communicator, that was interested in educating the children of his day. He succeeded.

We simply need to understand history to help us select the lesser of two fundamentally flawed evils this go around.

Go easy on me Vol….

Blessings,
Chris

McCain aint conservative enough for a lot of us.

David

My experience with evangelical Christians fall along primarily SBC and various flavors of Charismaticism. Among those I am acquainted with, there is a strong and pervasive anti-muslim, pro-war-with-any-muslim sentiment. Specifically, there is, almost to the person, an immediate indignation if one questions the Iraq war for example. Most still believe there are WMDs in Iraq. Most believe Iraq had something to do with 911. Essentially, they believe anything out of the current administration’s mouth. Mention torture, and you’ll get not horror, but justification. That is what I mean by pro-war and hard-core. Although the voices are different, you would swear you were listening to a Rush Limbaugh transcript being read. There seems to be a fundamental inability to think critically about alot of issues. Ask them what they think about a certain issue, and they’ll tell you what Sean Hannity and Bill O’Reilly were just saying about it. My experience is my own, which is why I asked Shane if his experience is the same.

I appreciate your benefit of the doubt for politicians. I do not believe the truth is their friend at all. Like Shane, I am sorry for Sarah Palin, because she doesn’t seem to be a good attack dog and rumor monger. It doesn’t seem to fit her.

One question of mine that has gotten lost in the noise, is why evangelicals don’t like McCain.

While a contributor, I can do things “wrong” and if need be will be called down upon for it. If I have directed this thread in a wrong way, my apologies to Geoff and to you. Now let me attempt to answer your questions:

1. Okay – I will ask the question in light of your answer to Shane. See my further comments in #55. Specifically you asked Shane about his “experience” that most American Christians are “pro-war” and that most of them are “hard core Republicans.” I must infer that is your experience and understanding. What do you mean by “pro-war?” and “hard core?” Can one support the troops and their mission without being “pro-war?” Can Christians believe strongly about biblical issues and not be “hard core?” Those are fairly loaded words – explain them a bit.

2. David’s statement was a listing of data: A great majority of most evangelical are not “pro-war” but understand that sometimes war is necessary but not to revel about – and if found by our leaders necessary then to support the mission and the troops carrying out that mission. If you clearly stated your view, then I missed it. I guess I can infer what you view is from your comments to Shane, but by golly you got to prove it beyond your opinion. Do you have proof that American Christians are “pro-war” (see my desire of your explanation in item #1)and what in the blazes is wrong about being ‘hard core’?

3. It was a dig. You could have ignored it. Truthfully I would not be able to. You have me there

4. I believe that all politicians (besides those who have too much to hide) are trying to be truthful from their point of view. My point is despite what you consider fudging about their opponents positions, what exactly are they sharing about their own world view – and have they consistently applied their world view by their votes? What scares me is not what Palin is saying about Obama. What scares me is what Obama has done and said for all to see.

Aaron,

I sent you an email.

Rob