Comments on: Is It Okay To Have Sex Outside of Marriage? http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/20/is-it-okay-to-have-sex-outside-of-marriage/ life :: theology :: church :: ministry :: missions :: worship Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:40:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Strider http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/20/is-it-okay-to-have-sex-outside-of-marriage/#comment-17006 Strider Sun, 24 Aug 2008 02:34:14 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=605#comment-17006 Well, I almost did not comment because the conversation has moved on and I am late again but here goes. These are all good and right points. But they are not good enough to reach the folks in our pews. I think we need to hit them with love. The fact is that sex outside of marriage is unloving. People who have sex apart from marriage are using each other and the damage that it does to ourselves and our communities is screaming for us to stop- but no one is listening yet. Our Church members are being discipled by TV rather than the Bible they rarely read and it is not giving them this message. Love one another. This is the command that Christ gave us and when we use each other and walk away we hurt each other in brutal ways. I was at a party today and a couple of young couples were there. It was obvious to me and everyone else what level of 'relationship' they had. I weep for them because no one is there to tell them the truth about what they are doing to each other. Even if they get married the scars will hurt them for years to come. Let's stand up and tell the truth- but stop using the 'sin' word because it has lost its meaning. Let us use the word love and teach each other how to love well and if we do then newly married couples wont need years of counseling before they can enjoy sex. Well, I almost did not comment because the conversation has moved on and I am late again but here goes.
These are all good and right points. But they are not good enough to reach the folks in our pews. I think we need to hit them with love. The fact is that sex outside of marriage is unloving. People who have sex apart from marriage are using each other and the damage that it does to ourselves and our communities is screaming for us to stop- but no one is listening yet. Our Church members are being discipled by TV rather than the Bible they rarely read and it is not giving them this message. Love one another. This is the command that Christ gave us and when we use each other and walk away we hurt each other in brutal ways. I was at a party today and a couple of young couples were there. It was obvious to me and everyone else what level of ‘relationship’ they had. I weep for them because no one is there to tell them the truth about what they are doing to each other. Even if they get married the scars will hurt them for years to come. Let’s stand up and tell the truth- but stop using the ‘sin’ word because it has lost its meaning. Let us use the word love and teach each other how to love well and if we do then newly married couples wont need years of counseling before they can enjoy sex.

]]> By: From the Middle East http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/20/is-it-okay-to-have-sex-outside-of-marriage/#comment-17005 From the Middle East Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:02:08 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=605#comment-17005 Brother PatrickW, Thank you for your interaction on this topic. I do agree with your statement that we are to be obedient to Jesus and He will take care of the rest. While we are most certainly commanded to be fruitful, we are also commanded to be good stewards of the Earth God has entrusted to us. Which, once again, brings us back to my final two questions to you in comment #15. On a similar note, you stated that "we are commanded to be fruitful." To which I agree. I guess the real question is whether or not this is quantified in Scripture? His mercy be yours in abundance, From the Middle East Brother PatrickW,

Thank you for your interaction on this topic.

I do agree with your statement that we are to be obedient to Jesus and He will take care of the rest. While we are most certainly commanded to be fruitful, we are also commanded to be good stewards of the Earth God has entrusted to us. Which, once again, brings us back to my final two questions to you in comment #15.

On a similar note, you stated that “we are commanded to be fruitful.” To which I agree. I guess the real question is whether or not this is quantified in Scripture?

His mercy be yours in abundance,
From the Middle East

]]> By: PatrickW http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/20/is-it-okay-to-have-sex-outside-of-marriage/#comment-17004 PatrickW Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:50:13 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=605#comment-17004 <i>My assumption is that you are a Christian and, as such, desire all to understand the Gospel, turn to God and live according to His precepts. </i> Correct. <i>If even 80% of the world were to do so and put aside their birth control, what do you think the WORLD population would look like in about 200 years?</i> I have to take issue with the dichotomy you are establishing here. Our responsibility is to follow God's word. He does not ask us to do the impossible. As Les noted above, we are commanded to be fruitful. He gave us the ability to create new life in a pale reflection of His own act in creating Adam. If we trust God and follow this command, He will handle the consequences of it. Abraham trusted God when told to sacrifice Isaac, as horrific as it seemed. He made sure everything worked out in the end. Peace be with you. My assumption is that you are a Christian and, as such, desire all to understand the Gospel, turn to God and live according to His precepts.

Correct.

If even 80% of the world were to do so and put aside their birth control, what do you think the WORLD population would look like in about 200 years?

I have to take issue with the dichotomy you are establishing here. Our responsibility is to follow God’s word. He does not ask us to do the impossible.

As Les noted above, we are commanded to be fruitful. He gave us the ability to create new life in a pale reflection of His own act in creating Adam. If we trust God and follow this command, He will handle the consequences of it. Abraham trusted God when told to sacrifice Isaac, as horrific as it seemed. He made sure everything worked out in the end.

Peace be with you.

]]> By: From the Middle East http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/20/is-it-okay-to-have-sex-outside-of-marriage/#comment-17003 From the Middle East Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:19:48 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=605#comment-17003 Brother Patrick W, To answer your question, no, I am not ready to abandon any "Christian" teaching that is explicit in the Scriptures. However I do not find this teaching in the Scriptures. But, it would not be the first "traditional Christian" teaching that I disagree with (Earth being the center of the universe, morality of the slave trade, etc). I do, however, oppose all forms of birth control that are capable of killing an unborn child. But, getting back to the question posed to you... My assumption is that you are a Christian and, as such, desire all to understand the Gospel, turn to God and live according to His precepts. If even 80% of the world were to do so and put aside their birth control, what do you think the WORLD population would look like in about 200 years? You can access a brief article on the topic by clicking the below link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation It is one thing to apply your principle to those living here in the United States of America where resources are abundant, but to glimpse future possibilities for our ancestors if all peoples were to do away with birth control is quite a different matter. The global implications are significant. To prevent the birth of child number 14 or to play fast and loose with the precious resources God has blessed us with... which is the greater sin? Or could it be that this is a matter or eating meat or not eating meat? His peace be yours in abundance, From the Middle East Brother Patrick W,

To answer your question, no, I am not ready to abandon any “Christian” teaching that is explicit in the Scriptures. However I do not find this teaching in the Scriptures. But, it would not be the first “traditional Christian” teaching that I disagree with (Earth being the center of the universe, morality of the slave trade, etc).

I do, however, oppose all forms of birth control that are capable of killing an unborn child. But, getting back to the question posed to you…

My assumption is that you are a Christian and, as such, desire all to understand the Gospel, turn to God and live according to His precepts. If even 80% of the world were to do so and put aside their birth control, what do you think the WORLD population would look like in about 200 years? You can access a brief article on the topic by clicking the below link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation

It is one thing to apply your principle to those living here in the United States of America where resources are abundant, but to glimpse future possibilities for our ancestors if all peoples were to do away with birth control is quite a different matter. The global implications are significant.

To prevent the birth of child number 14 or to play fast and loose with the precious resources God has blessed us with… which is the greater sin? Or could it be that this is a matter or eating meat or not eating meat?

His peace be yours in abundance,
From the Middle East

]]> By: PatrickW http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/20/is-it-okay-to-have-sex-outside-of-marriage/#comment-17002 PatrickW Thu, 21 Aug 2008 01:57:49 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=605#comment-17002 Bill - I believe God will <i>allow</i> us to thwart his plans, just as He allows us to sin. Then He lets us live with the consequences of our actions. Bill – I believe God will allow us to thwart his plans, just as He allows us to sin. Then He lets us live with the consequences of our actions.

]]> By: PatrickW http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/20/is-it-okay-to-have-sex-outside-of-marriage/#comment-17001 PatrickW Thu, 21 Aug 2008 01:51:54 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=605#comment-17001 Lew - it is not my place to judge anyone's soul. We are all sinners in various ways. I hope you will pursue the adoption alternative. There is a great need and I'm confident God will bless your willingness to help a child. From the Middle East - you conclude correctly, I oppose all forms of artificial birth control. So did almost every Christian denomination in the world until the Anglicans approved it back in 1930. So I'll turn the question around: have you abandoned centuries of Christian teaching on this? If so, why? Babies are not a disease to be prevented; they are a blessing, made in the image and likeness of God. He designed men and women to reproduce. It is not our place to thwart His plan in order to satisfy our own desires. Overpopulation is the least of my worries. The environment in the U.S. is in far better shape than many countries with much lower birth rates and population density - Russia is a good example. Likewise, there are places like Costa Rica with higher birth rates and superior environmental stewardship. Obviously it is possible to be open to life while also being good stewards of the Earth. Is adopting instead of procreating a sin? Maybe. I think a lot depends on the circumstances of the family involved. My point is that we should be open to God's design for us, whatever form it takes. Lew – it is not my place to judge anyone’s soul. We are all sinners in various ways. I hope you will pursue the adoption alternative. There is a great need and I’m confident God will bless your willingness to help a child.

From the Middle East – you conclude correctly, I oppose all forms of artificial birth control. So did almost every Christian denomination in the world until the Anglicans approved it back in 1930. So I’ll turn the question around: have you abandoned centuries of Christian teaching on this? If so, why?

Babies are not a disease to be prevented; they are a blessing, made in the image and likeness of God. He designed men and women to reproduce. It is not our place to thwart His plan in order to satisfy our own desires. Overpopulation is the least of my worries. The environment in the U.S. is in far better shape than many countries with much lower birth rates and population density – Russia is a good example. Likewise, there are places like Costa Rica with higher birth rates and superior environmental stewardship. Obviously it is possible to be open to life while also being good stewards of the Earth.

Is adopting instead of procreating a sin? Maybe. I think a lot depends on the circumstances of the family involved. My point is that we should be open to God’s design for us, whatever form it takes.

]]> By: Bill http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/20/is-it-okay-to-have-sex-outside-of-marriage/#comment-17000 Bill Thu, 21 Aug 2008 01:42:39 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=605#comment-17000 Lew: I don't take that passage the same way. I think the "all things are lawful", means all things that are not inherently sinful, like what we eat and drink for example, but that we might abstain under certain circumstances. Patrick: Do you really believe we can thwart God's plans? Lew: I don’t take that passage the same way. I think the “all things are lawful”, means all things that are not inherently sinful, like what we eat and drink for example, but that we might abstain under certain circumstances.

Patrick: Do you really believe we can thwart God’s plans?

]]> By: From the Middle East http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/20/is-it-okay-to-have-sex-outside-of-marriage/#comment-16999 From the Middle East Thu, 21 Aug 2008 00:15:23 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=605#comment-16999 Brother Patrick W, I have some questions for you: 1. Given your seemingly negative comments about birth control in comment #5 and your comment that children or no children is something best left in God's hands in comment #8, it would seem you are opposed to all forms of birth control. Is this accurate? 2. If your answer to my first question is "yes," would you please comment on how biblical ethics and overpopulation of the Earth (of which we are to be stewards) play into your theological convictions. 3. Is adopting INSTEAD of procreating a sin? May His face shine upon you, From the Middle East Brother Patrick W,

I have some questions for you:

1. Given your seemingly negative comments about birth control in comment #5 and your comment that children or no children is something best left in God’s hands in comment #8, it would seem you are opposed to all forms of birth control. Is this accurate?
2. If your answer to my first question is “yes,” would you please comment on how biblical ethics and overpopulation of the Earth (of which we are to be stewards) play into your theological convictions.
3. Is adopting INSTEAD of procreating a sin?

May His face shine upon you,
From the Middle East

]]> By: Lew A http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/20/is-it-okay-to-have-sex-outside-of-marriage/#comment-16998 Lew A Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:31:24 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=605#comment-16998 Les, Good :). Patrick W, Thank you for the clarification. Although, you may not have realized it, but you basically said I was an unrepentant sinner and going to hell. Put those two statements together (from comments #5 & #8): "When the unitive and procreative dimensions of sexuality become separated, God's plan for us is thwarted. Unpleasant results always follow, [in that] unrepentant sinners go to hell..." I'm sure that wasn't your intention though. And for what it's worth, my wife and I have decided to not have babies for many reasons (one of which is my own based on biblical warnings of the end times)... but also we have talked a lot about adopting children to give them a chance before we bring more children into the world. We feel that it would probably be best to help those who are already suffering. God's Glory, Lew Les,

Good :) .

Patrick W,

Thank you for the clarification. Although, you may not have realized it, but you basically said I was an unrepentant sinner and going to hell.

Put those two statements together (from comments #5 & #8): “When the unitive and procreative dimensions of sexuality become separated, God’s plan for us is thwarted. Unpleasant results always follow, [in that] unrepentant sinners go to hell…”

I’m sure that wasn’t your intention though.

And for what it’s worth, my wife and I have decided to not have babies for many reasons (one of which is my own based on biblical warnings of the end times)… but also we have talked a lot about adopting children to give them a chance before we bring more children into the world. We feel that it would probably be best to help those who are already suffering.

God’s Glory,
Lew

]]> By: Les Puryear http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/20/is-it-okay-to-have-sex-outside-of-marriage/#comment-16997 Les Puryear Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:47:37 +0000 http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=605#comment-16997 Kevin, Thanks for pointing us to additional material on this topic. John, Well, that's another topic for another time. :) Chris, Excellent approach. Perhaps we can all learn from it. David, Absolutely. Good word. Patrick, I agree with your fifth point. Obviously, God commanded Adam and Noah and thus, us as well, to "be fruitful and multiply." Lew, Oh, how I wish point one would be enough for all Christians. I would rather be prone to a cry of "legalism" than to overstep my freedom in Christ. Our freedom is constrained by our love for Christ in all things. Love for Christ is given by Christ and is not mustered up on our own. I believe we are in agreement on that. Les Kevin,

Thanks for pointing us to additional material on this topic.

John,

Well, that’s another topic for another time. :)

Chris,

Excellent approach. Perhaps we can all learn from it.

David,

Absolutely. Good word.

Patrick,

I agree with your fifth point. Obviously, God commanded Adam and Noah and thus, us as well, to “be fruitful and multiply.”

Lew,

Oh, how I wish point one would be enough for all Christians.

I would rather be prone to a cry of “legalism” than to overstep my freedom in Christ. Our freedom is constrained by our love for Christ in all things. Love for Christ is given by Christ and is not mustered up on our own. I believe we are in agreement on that.

Les

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