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	<title>Comments on: LifeWay Cutting Jobs &#8211; Bad Economy or Wrong Direction?</title>
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	<description>life :: theology :: church :: ministry :: missions :: worship</description>
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		<title>By: Hitchcock</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/06/lifeway-cutting-jobs/#comment-14555</link>
		<dc:creator>Hitchcock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=576#comment-14555</guid>
		<description>Brothers and sisters in Christ,
My heart is sad to read all of the above comments regarding LifeWay.  I have worked in partnership with them for many years, and have been blessed and spiritually groomed by their mission-minded focus.  Certainly, they have expanded their market to include material in order to reach a larger market, including those to whom the traditional approach wouldn&#039;t appeal.  The message of Christ hasn&#039;t been changed; the means of delivering it has.  Did Jesus not minister to people in terms they could understand?  The tax collector would understand a financial parable, a fisherman a parable about fishing, and so on.  It&#039;s about reaching people where they are, and that requires providing resources to reach the otherwise unreachable.  What is most concerning to me is the tearing down of Lifeway.  Friends and family have come to know Christ because of resources from Lifeway.  Lives have been changed because of Christ being shared through their ministry.  No one person is perfect, no organization is perfect, no church is perfect, because there are imperfect people (you and I) involved.  We&#039;re not in heaven yet!  Thus, my suggestion to stop letting Satan monopolize your thoughts and words by tearing down part of the body of Christ - LifeWay - and recognize positive things they have done and continue to do.  Pray for this ministry instead of tearing them down. Is that not what you would want brothers and sisters in the Lord to do for you?  Let&#039;s choose to do the right thing, and build up the body of Christ.  Satan has enough allies to tear it down without Christians adding to the cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brothers and sisters in Christ,<br />
My heart is sad to read all of the above comments regarding LifeWay.  I have worked in partnership with them for many years, and have been blessed and spiritually groomed by their mission-minded focus.  Certainly, they have expanded their market to include material in order to reach a larger market, including those to whom the traditional approach wouldn&#8217;t appeal.  The message of Christ hasn&#8217;t been changed; the means of delivering it has.  Did Jesus not minister to people in terms they could understand?  The tax collector would understand a financial parable, a fisherman a parable about fishing, and so on.  It&#8217;s about reaching people where they are, and that requires providing resources to reach the otherwise unreachable.  What is most concerning to me is the tearing down of Lifeway.  Friends and family have come to know Christ because of resources from Lifeway.  Lives have been changed because of Christ being shared through their ministry.  No one person is perfect, no organization is perfect, no church is perfect, because there are imperfect people (you and I) involved.  We&#8217;re not in heaven yet!  Thus, my suggestion to stop letting Satan monopolize your thoughts and words by tearing down part of the body of Christ &#8211; LifeWay &#8211; and recognize positive things they have done and continue to do.  Pray for this ministry instead of tearing them down. Is that not what you would want brothers and sisters in the Lord to do for you?  Let&#8217;s choose to do the right thing, and build up the body of Christ.  Satan has enough allies to tear it down without Christians adding to the cause.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/06/lifeway-cutting-jobs/#comment-14554</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 03:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=576#comment-14554</guid>
		<description>Bart thanks for the clarification on non profits. From the history of the Sunday School board and its financial dealings from years ago, I for one am tickled the bottom line for last years was in the black and maybe the layoffs will help it remain in the black. Multiply the criticisms here times 100 if Rainer had to come asking for CP money for a bail out.

Could it be one reason the SBC seems to be faltering in some areas is because we are becoming an ungrateful lot.  I have met some from other denominations who can but wish their denominational publishing houses could produce a mere fraction of what LifeWay turns out.  Count me as one that is appreciative to Dr. Draper&#039;s leadership while there and look forward to the directions Rainer and company lead LifeWay in the days to come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bart thanks for the clarification on non profits. From the history of the Sunday School board and its financial dealings from years ago, I for one am tickled the bottom line for last years was in the black and maybe the layoffs will help it remain in the black. Multiply the criticisms here times 100 if Rainer had to come asking for CP money for a bail out.</p>
<p>Could it be one reason the SBC seems to be faltering in some areas is because we are becoming an ungrateful lot.  I have met some from other denominations who can but wish their denominational publishing houses could produce a mere fraction of what LifeWay turns out.  Count me as one that is appreciative to Dr. Draper&#8217;s leadership while there and look forward to the directions Rainer and company lead LifeWay in the days to come.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bernard Shuford</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/06/lifeway-cutting-jobs/#comment-14553</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard Shuford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=576#comment-14553</guid>
		<description>Bro. Donnie - I would love to read your thoughts on the Bill Wiese &quot;23 minutes in Hell&quot; book if you have ever explored that one.  I&#039;ve never read it but I don&#039;t think it has a Scriptural foundation, from what I know of it.  Thanks.  Email me at nards656 at gmail dot com if you don&#039;t mind, just to keep from taking this thread too far off track.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bro. Donnie &#8211; I would love to read your thoughts on the Bill Wiese &#8220;23 minutes in Hell&#8221; book if you have ever explored that one.  I&#8217;ve never read it but I don&#8217;t think it has a Scriptural foundation, from what I know of it.  Thanks.  Email me at nards656 at gmail dot com if you don&#8217;t mind, just to keep from taking this thread too far off track.</p>
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		<title>By: Donnie Guy</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/06/lifeway-cutting-jobs/#comment-14552</link>
		<dc:creator>Donnie Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=576#comment-14552</guid>
		<description>I have been warning people about LifeWay&#039;s move to the &quot;center&quot; for a number of years now. Below are two articles I wrote about materials they sell. Please take time to read them and share with me your comments. Thanks, Donnie Guy
Weekly Devotion
89½ Minutes on Mars!
Presently I’m working on a manuscript about my recent visit to Mars, which I soon hope to get published. Then maybe I can get a book into Christian Bookstores. The storyline of course is completely fictional but that’s what sells now days so I’ve decided to abandon writing anymore books based on doctrine, the Bible or historical biblical facts. Who wants to read that stuff anyway? Tabloid Christianity is where it’s at today! I’m positive because Bookstores shelves are filled with that stuff.
   The title of my new book is – 89½ Minutes on Mars, Where I Learned the Driven Purpose for Lucre, While Visiting The Shack. Man, am I excited about this book. It’s sure to captivate readers because, in it, I detail my first out-of-body experience, one where I fell into a trance and was caught-up to Mars. There I was greeted by what I thought was a Martian Welcoming Committee. Turns out it was just people I had known on earth. Two people were very familiar to me. My grandma, who was probably the greatest Christian I’d ever known and Mr. J. E. Brown who was my Sunday School teacher at age 10. Their godly instruction helped me tremendously after I became a Christian. I thought both had gone to Heaven but here they were on Mars. Why were they not in Heaven? I was perplexed. For a moment I felt like Opie Taylor: “I sure was confused Paw.”
   I noticed that the welcoming committee had a hazy green glow about them, which made them look like little green men and women. That’s why I thought they were Martians. When I asked about the strange green glow, grandma said it was because of the smelly swamp gas that surrounds The Shack where one Young man said God dwells. Sure enough, when I looked down at myself, I too looked green. I learned later that green people on Mars can go back to Earth occasionally to check on their loved ones. So what men have thought for years were little green men, were simply their relatives checking up on them.
   As we walked towards The Shack, I asked grandma another question, “Why are you living on Mars?” Without hesitation she replied, “Oh, we’re not quite good enough to get into Heaven yet. You see Heaven is where God lives and is called third heaven so, because we’re not quite ready to be in His presence, we were dropped off in the realm of second heaven, which consists of the stars and planets. You know, outer space, where Charismatics often visit dear.” Grandma’s statement shocked me but it didn’t answer my question. Now my mind was whirling. Grandma not good enough for Heaven? Mr. Brown not good enough? What’s was going on here? My visit to The Shack though would clear-up my distorted view of Christianity.
   Once we reached The Shack, the answer to my question came. There I saw a sassy black woman who the Young man said was God. This too came as a shock because I always believed what the Bible taught about God: “That God is Spirit.” I had no idea God was a black woman. Nevertheless, there she sat and boy did she enlighten me about Christianity. It seems that some people have to go to Mars before they can enter Heaven, people like my grandma and Mr. J.E. because they failed to read the Driven Purpose for Lucre, which has now replaced the Bible. So for their final cleansing, such people must remain on Mars until they’ve memorized this book and reformed their view of Christianity. While on Earth, they spent too much time studying the scripture, sharing the Gospel, teaching a Bible class, witnessing to a lost world or supporting missions and evangelism. None had abandoned these silly things to work with the United Nations or join hands with atheists to help bring P.E.A.C.E to the world or help find a cure for Aids. Not a one of them had ever been to a political rally in church or spent hours campaigning for a political candidate. What’s even worse is those green goons gave their time and money to the local church to support evangelism. What were they thinking? But that’s not the real shocker. I learned that not a person living on Mars had ever taken time out of their busy church schedule to make a More of Beth Study or attend a Fail to Keep Your Promises Meeting. Not a one had been to a Presidential Forum at the Backwards Saddle Church either so I began to wonder if any of them even deserved to go to Heaven. I’m sure glad for my 89½ minutes on Mars. It wised me up to such misled folks.
   I got a good look at that bunch alright and realized what a bad influence people like them had been on me, especially grandma and that fundamental, Bible-thumping, Mr. J.E. I can’t believe they caused me to waste 38 years of my life doing what they did; studying the Bible, preaching the Gospel, adhering to sound doctrine, winning the lost and serving the Church. And what did it get me? Nothing but heartaches and criticism from professing Christians who treated me like I was from Mars. That’s when a voice from Heaven told me: “Write a book about visiting Mars because adhering strictly to the Bible or preaching the Gospel is too old-fashion. Nobody wants to hear it anyway.” So I’m going the New Age Contemporary route.
   Visiting Mars for 89½ minutes sure changed my mind about Christianity. Grandma and Mr. J. E. were wrong. I know now that they were just a couple of Bible-thumping fundamentalists back on Earth; narrow-minded folks who had believed every word in the Bible. Neither one had ever read new age contemporary books or listened to preachers who questioned the validity of Scripture or denied the deity of Christ. What a couple of rubes! No wonder they were on Mars instead of being in Heaven.
   Normally, if one has an out-of-body experience like me and spends 89½ minutes on Mars, he must keep silent for 20 years. This gives him plenty of time to fabricate a story. After all, writing a best selling fictional book takes time but I can’t wait 20 years. What I learned on Mars is too important. People’s minds must be changed concerning that old stale Christianity stuff.
   I’m confident my new book will be a best seller because professing Christians today feed off of such new age boloney. They prefer touchy-feely stories to truth from the Scripture. Case in point: Nine of the top ten so-called Christian books today are fiction. Others are psycho-babble or based on someone’s personal experience, like claiming to visit Heaven. Only one of the top ten is biblically based. Paul warned of a time when people would “turn from the truth to fabricated stories.” (2Tim.4:4)
   The reason I chose to write about visiting Mars rather than Heaven is because several have already fabricated that story, which is pretty risky. After all, man may never get to Mars in my lifetime so my fictional story may never be refuted. Christians though will one day live in Heaven and if Heaven is not as the others described it in their books, they’ll have all eternity to contemplate the errors of their ways but it may not be in Heaven. Donnie Guy – August 2008 – www.donnieguy.org

90 Minutes in Heaven?
Several people have asked me to share my opinion of the new book 90 Minutes in Heaven written by Don Piper and co-authored by Cecil Murphy. There are so many red flags about this book that I really don’t know where to begin so I simply did what John taught believers to do in situations like this. I applied the “spirit test” (1Jn.4:1) to Mr. Piper’s book, and so I compared it to God’s Word.
   My first concern arose when I discovered that Mr. Piper’s book deals with him and his life experiences more than his supposed 90 minutes in Heaven. Only one chapter deals with his visit to Heaven, which I find odd. John was caught-up into heaven but he managed to write 22 chapters about his experience so if you want to know what Heaven is truly like, I would suggest you read chapters 4 and 5 of his Revelation.
   Another concern was that Mr. Piper used a co-author to help him write his book. “Oh, Donnie, a lot of people use co-authors to help them write their books.” Sure they do, if their intention is to write a book but when one receives such a vital message or vision from God, you would think that God could help that person write what he saw. After all, He helped Ezekiel, Daniel, Paul and John and their visions were perfectly clear. Mr. Piper’s is at best sketchy.
   My greatest concern came when Mr. Piper said that he didn’t see Jesus. (p.22) That’s odd also because, when John arrived in Heaven, the first person he saw was Jesus. “Come up here…and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one (Jesus) sat on the throne.” (Rev.4:1-4) The absence of Jesus didn’t seem to bother Mr. Piper. He seemed more enamored with what he called a “celestial welcoming committee.” Not me! Let me tell you how I feel. If I ever get a pre-shot at Heaven, the first person I’m looking for is Jesus. I’ll have all eternity to visit with loved ones. I want to see my Savior!
   The use of the word awesome in the NIV Bible is in error: “He was afraid and said: How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God; this is the gate of heaven.” The word awesome is never found in scripture so dreadful is used in Genesis 28:17. Dreadful comes from the Hebrew word yare and translates: fear, afraid, frightful or dread. The word awe can be found three times in scripture but it’s never translated from the Hebrew word yare. So Jacob’s experience was not one of delight, as was Mr. Piper’s. He was gripped with fear when he realized he was in God’s presence, as was Isaiah and John. Neither felt the sense of joy that Mr. Piper said pulsated through him. (p.21)
   Also, this is the only time “gate of heaven” is used in scripture. In fact, the Bible never speaks of the gates of Heaven like we hear in songs or like Mr. Piper described in his book. The Bible does speak of gates into New Jerusalem but Mr. Piper didn’t happen to see that beautiful city either, as big as it is. One important thing to remember here, Jacob was not in Heaven when he saw a gate. He was awake and standing on the ground, looking up at the sky. (v.16) What Jacob saw was an opening (shaar) in the sky or clouds (shameb) not the gates of Heaven. So once again it’s odd that Jacob saw an opening in the clouds and John saw a door in the clouds but Mr. Piper saw an “ornate gate” (p.22), an “adorned gate”, in Heaven. So the question arises: Where was Mr. Piper when he saw an ornate gate?

Mr. Piper goes on to talk about the music that he heard in heaven. This is another thing that I found odd because again the Bible never speaks of the type of music he heard. First he said that he never saw what produced the music (p.30) but John did. (Rev.5:8) John saw only harps but Mr. Piper speaks of hearing many instruments. He goes on to say that there were hundreds of songs being sung at one time but John heard only one song and all of heaven was singing it in unison. Mr. Piper tells us that he heard many of the old songs and hymns being sung (p.31) but John tells us this: “And they sang a new song.” (Rev.5:9) Scripture mentions nothing of old hymns or choruses so, once again, Mr. Piper makes a gross error. This one though hinges on blaspheming God’s Word, especially in what he says next. (P.30)
   He said that he didn’t hear any songs about the sacrificial death of Jesus, especially sad songs because there are no sad songs in heaven. (P.31) Well, let’s compare this to what John said he heard. “And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels, round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain.” (Rev.5:11-12) In Heaven, the sacrificial death of Jesus is not a sad song but a glorious praise to the Savior for dying for our salvation. So, I must ask: Why didn’t Mr. Piper hear what John heard?
   Here’s the main question that needs to be answered: “Why wait almost twenty years to write about such an important experience?” Mr. Piper’s accident occurred in 1989 and yet his book is fairly new to the market. But one would think that such an important message from God would have been proclaimed immediately. After all, today this book is being recommended to people who have recently lost loved ones and is being heralded as truth by some TV preachers so why wasn’t this all-important book published back in 1989?
   I believe I can answer that question because I was around in 1989. Back then; such a story would have met with scorn and laughter from the many godly preachers who knew the Bible and adhered to truth. They would have put this book in the New-age section of the Bookstore under fantasy just like the many other I went to heaven tales that were showing up, especially in Supermarket Tabloids. Acceptance of this book is just a reminder of how far off course the Church has strayed from biblical truth. It appears to be just another book about an out of body experience, even though that’s not how it’s titled. But the immediate problem that arises is that the Bible doesn’t confirm people going to Heaven and returning.
   Some people have attempted to use Paul’s episode where he was caught-up into third heaven to substantiate Mr. Piper’s visit to Heaven but they manipulate scripture. Unlike Mr. Piper, Paul played down his experience. He would not even talk about what he saw or heard: “And heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.” (2Cor.12:4) Also, unlike Mr. Piper, the men who did get a vision of Heaven talked about Jesus not themselves or their loved ones. This book reminds me of new-age teaching and will confuse the minds of believers since it is being sold in Christian Bookstores. If Mr. Piper’s tale is true, it will stand in the Judgment. If not, I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes when he actually visits Heaven to stand before Jesus.
  Written by Donnie Guy  March 2008 – www.donnieguy.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been warning people about LifeWay&#8217;s move to the &#8220;center&#8221; for a number of years now. Below are two articles I wrote about materials they sell. Please take time to read them and share with me your comments. Thanks, Donnie Guy<br />
Weekly Devotion<br />
89½ Minutes on Mars!<br />
Presently I’m working on a manuscript about my recent visit to Mars, which I soon hope to get published. Then maybe I can get a book into Christian Bookstores. The storyline of course is completely fictional but that’s what sells now days so I’ve decided to abandon writing anymore books based on doctrine, the Bible or historical biblical facts. Who wants to read that stuff anyway? Tabloid Christianity is where it’s at today! I’m positive because Bookstores shelves are filled with that stuff.<br />
   The title of my new book is – 89½ Minutes on Mars, Where I Learned the Driven Purpose for Lucre, While Visiting The Shack. Man, am I excited about this book. It’s sure to captivate readers because, in it, I detail my first out-of-body experience, one where I fell into a trance and was caught-up to Mars. There I was greeted by what I thought was a Martian Welcoming Committee. Turns out it was just people I had known on earth. Two people were very familiar to me. My grandma, who was probably the greatest Christian I’d ever known and Mr. J. E. Brown who was my Sunday School teacher at age 10. Their godly instruction helped me tremendously after I became a Christian. I thought both had gone to Heaven but here they were on Mars. Why were they not in Heaven? I was perplexed. For a moment I felt like Opie Taylor: “I sure was confused Paw.”<br />
   I noticed that the welcoming committee had a hazy green glow about them, which made them look like little green men and women. That’s why I thought they were Martians. When I asked about the strange green glow, grandma said it was because of the smelly swamp gas that surrounds The Shack where one Young man said God dwells. Sure enough, when I looked down at myself, I too looked green. I learned later that green people on Mars can go back to Earth occasionally to check on their loved ones. So what men have thought for years were little green men, were simply their relatives checking up on them.<br />
   As we walked towards The Shack, I asked grandma another question, “Why are you living on Mars?” Without hesitation she replied, “Oh, we’re not quite good enough to get into Heaven yet. You see Heaven is where God lives and is called third heaven so, because we’re not quite ready to be in His presence, we were dropped off in the realm of second heaven, which consists of the stars and planets. You know, outer space, where Charismatics often visit dear.” Grandma’s statement shocked me but it didn’t answer my question. Now my mind was whirling. Grandma not good enough for Heaven? Mr. Brown not good enough? What’s was going on here? My visit to The Shack though would clear-up my distorted view of Christianity.<br />
   Once we reached The Shack, the answer to my question came. There I saw a sassy black woman who the Young man said was God. This too came as a shock because I always believed what the Bible taught about God: “That God is Spirit.” I had no idea God was a black woman. Nevertheless, there she sat and boy did she enlighten me about Christianity. It seems that some people have to go to Mars before they can enter Heaven, people like my grandma and Mr. J.E. because they failed to read the Driven Purpose for Lucre, which has now replaced the Bible. So for their final cleansing, such people must remain on Mars until they’ve memorized this book and reformed their view of Christianity. While on Earth, they spent too much time studying the scripture, sharing the Gospel, teaching a Bible class, witnessing to a lost world or supporting missions and evangelism. None had abandoned these silly things to work with the United Nations or join hands with atheists to help bring P.E.A.C.E to the world or help find a cure for Aids. Not a one of them had ever been to a political rally in church or spent hours campaigning for a political candidate. What’s even worse is those green goons gave their time and money to the local church to support evangelism. What were they thinking? But that’s not the real shocker. I learned that not a person living on Mars had ever taken time out of their busy church schedule to make a More of Beth Study or attend a Fail to Keep Your Promises Meeting. Not a one had been to a Presidential Forum at the Backwards Saddle Church either so I began to wonder if any of them even deserved to go to Heaven. I’m sure glad for my 89½ minutes on Mars. It wised me up to such misled folks.<br />
   I got a good look at that bunch alright and realized what a bad influence people like them had been on me, especially grandma and that fundamental, Bible-thumping, Mr. J.E. I can’t believe they caused me to waste 38 years of my life doing what they did; studying the Bible, preaching the Gospel, adhering to sound doctrine, winning the lost and serving the Church. And what did it get me? Nothing but heartaches and criticism from professing Christians who treated me like I was from Mars. That’s when a voice from Heaven told me: “Write a book about visiting Mars because adhering strictly to the Bible or preaching the Gospel is too old-fashion. Nobody wants to hear it anyway.” So I’m going the New Age Contemporary route.<br />
   Visiting Mars for 89½ minutes sure changed my mind about Christianity. Grandma and Mr. J. E. were wrong. I know now that they were just a couple of Bible-thumping fundamentalists back on Earth; narrow-minded folks who had believed every word in the Bible. Neither one had ever read new age contemporary books or listened to preachers who questioned the validity of Scripture or denied the deity of Christ. What a couple of rubes! No wonder they were on Mars instead of being in Heaven.<br />
   Normally, if one has an out-of-body experience like me and spends 89½ minutes on Mars, he must keep silent for 20 years. This gives him plenty of time to fabricate a story. After all, writing a best selling fictional book takes time but I can’t wait 20 years. What I learned on Mars is too important. People’s minds must be changed concerning that old stale Christianity stuff.<br />
   I’m confident my new book will be a best seller because professing Christians today feed off of such new age boloney. They prefer touchy-feely stories to truth from the Scripture. Case in point: Nine of the top ten so-called Christian books today are fiction. Others are psycho-babble or based on someone’s personal experience, like claiming to visit Heaven. Only one of the top ten is biblically based. Paul warned of a time when people would “turn from the truth to fabricated stories.” (2Tim.4:4)<br />
   The reason I chose to write about visiting Mars rather than Heaven is because several have already fabricated that story, which is pretty risky. After all, man may never get to Mars in my lifetime so my fictional story may never be refuted. Christians though will one day live in Heaven and if Heaven is not as the others described it in their books, they’ll have all eternity to contemplate the errors of their ways but it may not be in Heaven. Donnie Guy – August 2008 – <a href="http://www.donnieguy.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.donnieguy.org</a></p>
<p>90 Minutes in Heaven?<br />
Several people have asked me to share my opinion of the new book 90 Minutes in Heaven written by Don Piper and co-authored by Cecil Murphy. There are so many red flags about this book that I really don’t know where to begin so I simply did what John taught believers to do in situations like this. I applied the “spirit test” (1Jn.4:1) to Mr. Piper’s book, and so I compared it to God’s Word.<br />
   My first concern arose when I discovered that Mr. Piper’s book deals with him and his life experiences more than his supposed 90 minutes in Heaven. Only one chapter deals with his visit to Heaven, which I find odd. John was caught-up into heaven but he managed to write 22 chapters about his experience so if you want to know what Heaven is truly like, I would suggest you read chapters 4 and 5 of his Revelation.<br />
   Another concern was that Mr. Piper used a co-author to help him write his book. “Oh, Donnie, a lot of people use co-authors to help them write their books.” Sure they do, if their intention is to write a book but when one receives such a vital message or vision from God, you would think that God could help that person write what he saw. After all, He helped Ezekiel, Daniel, Paul and John and their visions were perfectly clear. Mr. Piper’s is at best sketchy.<br />
   My greatest concern came when Mr. Piper said that he didn’t see Jesus. (p.22) That’s odd also because, when John arrived in Heaven, the first person he saw was Jesus. “Come up here…and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one (Jesus) sat on the throne.” (Rev.4:1-4) The absence of Jesus didn’t seem to bother Mr. Piper. He seemed more enamored with what he called a “celestial welcoming committee.” Not me! Let me tell you how I feel. If I ever get a pre-shot at Heaven, the first person I’m looking for is Jesus. I’ll have all eternity to visit with loved ones. I want to see my Savior!<br />
   The use of the word awesome in the NIV Bible is in error: “He was afraid and said: How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God; this is the gate of heaven.” The word awesome is never found in scripture so dreadful is used in Genesis 28:17. Dreadful comes from the Hebrew word yare and translates: fear, afraid, frightful or dread. The word awe can be found three times in scripture but it’s never translated from the Hebrew word yare. So Jacob’s experience was not one of delight, as was Mr. Piper’s. He was gripped with fear when he realized he was in God’s presence, as was Isaiah and John. Neither felt the sense of joy that Mr. Piper said pulsated through him. (p.21)<br />
   Also, this is the only time “gate of heaven” is used in scripture. In fact, the Bible never speaks of the gates of Heaven like we hear in songs or like Mr. Piper described in his book. The Bible does speak of gates into New Jerusalem but Mr. Piper didn’t happen to see that beautiful city either, as big as it is. One important thing to remember here, Jacob was not in Heaven when he saw a gate. He was awake and standing on the ground, looking up at the sky. (v.16) What Jacob saw was an opening (shaar) in the sky or clouds (shameb) not the gates of Heaven. So once again it’s odd that Jacob saw an opening in the clouds and John saw a door in the clouds but Mr. Piper saw an “ornate gate” (p.22), an “adorned gate”, in Heaven. So the question arises: Where was Mr. Piper when he saw an ornate gate?</p>
<p>Mr. Piper goes on to talk about the music that he heard in heaven. This is another thing that I found odd because again the Bible never speaks of the type of music he heard. First he said that he never saw what produced the music (p.30) but John did. (Rev.5:8) John saw only harps but Mr. Piper speaks of hearing many instruments. He goes on to say that there were hundreds of songs being sung at one time but John heard only one song and all of heaven was singing it in unison. Mr. Piper tells us that he heard many of the old songs and hymns being sung (p.31) but John tells us this: “And they sang a new song.” (Rev.5:9) Scripture mentions nothing of old hymns or choruses so, once again, Mr. Piper makes a gross error. This one though hinges on blaspheming God’s Word, especially in what he says next. (P.30)<br />
   He said that he didn’t hear any songs about the sacrificial death of Jesus, especially sad songs because there are no sad songs in heaven. (P.31) Well, let’s compare this to what John said he heard. “And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels, round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain.” (Rev.5:11-12) In Heaven, the sacrificial death of Jesus is not a sad song but a glorious praise to the Savior for dying for our salvation. So, I must ask: Why didn’t Mr. Piper hear what John heard?<br />
   Here’s the main question that needs to be answered: “Why wait almost twenty years to write about such an important experience?” Mr. Piper’s accident occurred in 1989 and yet his book is fairly new to the market. But one would think that such an important message from God would have been proclaimed immediately. After all, today this book is being recommended to people who have recently lost loved ones and is being heralded as truth by some TV preachers so why wasn’t this all-important book published back in 1989?<br />
   I believe I can answer that question because I was around in 1989. Back then; such a story would have met with scorn and laughter from the many godly preachers who knew the Bible and adhered to truth. They would have put this book in the New-age section of the Bookstore under fantasy just like the many other I went to heaven tales that were showing up, especially in Supermarket Tabloids. Acceptance of this book is just a reminder of how far off course the Church has strayed from biblical truth. It appears to be just another book about an out of body experience, even though that’s not how it’s titled. But the immediate problem that arises is that the Bible doesn’t confirm people going to Heaven and returning.<br />
   Some people have attempted to use Paul’s episode where he was caught-up into third heaven to substantiate Mr. Piper’s visit to Heaven but they manipulate scripture. Unlike Mr. Piper, Paul played down his experience. He would not even talk about what he saw or heard: “And heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.” (2Cor.12:4) Also, unlike Mr. Piper, the men who did get a vision of Heaven talked about Jesus not themselves or their loved ones. This book reminds me of new-age teaching and will confuse the minds of believers since it is being sold in Christian Bookstores. If Mr. Piper’s tale is true, it will stand in the Judgment. If not, I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes when he actually visits Heaven to stand before Jesus.<br />
  Written by Donnie Guy  March 2008 – <a href="http://www.donnieguy.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.donnieguy.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/06/lifeway-cutting-jobs/#comment-14551</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 01:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=576#comment-14551</guid>
		<description>I think this incident is a picture of the bloated and declining state of our denimation.  I still remember the Lifeway store at SEBTS selling text books at retail prices and learning that the same books could be purchased for less in many other places.  (This is a ministry?)  I think Lifeways downturn is due to people waking up to the reality that there is life outside the SBC kingdom.  I further think many Baptists are looking outside the SBC to buy their books and literature.  I was in Lifeway this week to pick up the SS literature we needed but couldn&#039;t find any Puritan literature that I wanted to read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this incident is a picture of the bloated and declining state of our denimation.  I still remember the Lifeway store at SEBTS selling text books at retail prices and learning that the same books could be purchased for less in many other places.  (This is a ministry?)  I think Lifeways downturn is due to people waking up to the reality that there is life outside the SBC kingdom.  I further think many Baptists are looking outside the SBC to buy their books and literature.  I was in Lifeway this week to pick up the SS literature we needed but couldn&#8217;t find any Puritan literature that I wanted to read.</p>
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		<title>By: Dewayne</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/06/lifeway-cutting-jobs/#comment-14550</link>
		<dc:creator>Dewayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=576#comment-14550</guid>
		<description>Could it possibly be that Lifeway&#039;s powers at hand are using the falling economy as an excuse to get rid of those who aren&#039;t like them. To answer someone&#039;s question above, no, Stetzer and the research department has not been cut. It is my understanding that everyone who is being cut is 50+. Cut the old guys and make room for the young Southern grads and Rainer&#039;s research dept.  Just a guess. What do you think, anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could it possibly be that Lifeway&#8217;s powers at hand are using the falling economy as an excuse to get rid of those who aren&#8217;t like them. To answer someone&#8217;s question above, no, Stetzer and the research department has not been cut. It is my understanding that everyone who is being cut is 50+. Cut the old guys and make room for the young Southern grads and Rainer&#8217;s research dept.  Just a guess. What do you think, anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Baggett</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/06/lifeway-cutting-jobs/#comment-14549</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Baggett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=576#comment-14549</guid>
		<description>John,
Indeed, today&#039;s date and the convergence of your views with Worley have been noted upon the sacred, super-secret IMPACT calendar!

Rob,
I, too, have noticed that items are &quot;out of stock&quot; when we need them.  We were thrilled with the G-Force curriculum ... perfect for our combination of large and small groups for kids.  But, alas!  LifeWay elected to produce only three years of the undated material.  Three years short for moving a child all the way through the program.  Very short sighted thinking, from my point of view.
I would agree that I am not all that surprised about difficulties.  I know for sure that the web site is slow as molasses...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,<br />
Indeed, today&#8217;s date and the convergence of your views with Worley have been noted upon the sacred, super-secret IMPACT calendar!</p>
<p>Rob,<br />
I, too, have noticed that items are &#8220;out of stock&#8221; when we need them.  We were thrilled with the G-Force curriculum &#8230; perfect for our combination of large and small groups for kids.  But, alas!  LifeWay elected to produce only three years of the undated material.  Three years short for moving a child all the way through the program.  Very short sighted thinking, from my point of view.<br />
I would agree that I am not all that surprised about difficulties.  I know for sure that the web site is slow as molasses&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Ayers</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/06/lifeway-cutting-jobs/#comment-14548</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Ayers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=576#comment-14548</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t get me started on Lifeway. With respect to my Christian brothers/sisters their and Dr. Ranier - the organization has lost it&#039;s way.  Too bloated, too much overhead, high prices, caters to the money makers (materials) despite lack of adherence often times to Baptist principles and doctrine, and panders to the large buyers of material rather than the churches (particularly small poor ones). - besides which for the last two years have held inventory of Sunday.  So...this does not surprise me in the least. I hope the clarion call goes out, and things change course sooner rather than later.

Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t get me started on Lifeway. With respect to my Christian brothers/sisters their and Dr. Ranier &#8211; the organization has lost it&#8217;s way.  Too bloated, too much overhead, high prices, caters to the money makers (materials) despite lack of adherence often times to Baptist principles and doctrine, and panders to the large buyers of material rather than the churches (particularly small poor ones). &#8211; besides which for the last two years have held inventory of Sunday.  So&#8230;this does not surprise me in the least. I hope the clarion call goes out, and things change course sooner rather than later.</p>
<p>Rob</p>
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		<title>By: volfan007</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/06/lifeway-cutting-jobs/#comment-14547</link>
		<dc:creator>volfan007</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=576#comment-14547</guid>
		<description>John,

:)


David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,<br />
 <img src='http://sbcimpact.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>David</p>
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		<title>By: John Fariss</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/08/06/lifeway-cutting-jobs/#comment-14546</link>
		<dc:creator>John Fariss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=576#comment-14546</guid>
		<description>THIS is flabbergasting!  An outrage!  Unheard of!  And I don&#039;t mean the subject, or the comments.  My reference is that David volfan007 and I agree on something!  (What&#039;s next?  That Jesus is the savior, and the only way for salvation?  That the Bible is the inspired, infalliable, written Word of God?)

I used to get a little upset that I could go into a Cokesberry (Methodist) bookstore, tell them I was a minister, and get an automatic discount, but couldn&#039;t at a Baptist Bookstore.  They said the discount was already in their pricing structure, but I couldn&#039;t find a nickel&#039;s worth difference in the two at retail.  But that was a minor irritant, and the plus was a good selection of books.  Go in a LifeWay store now, and it seems half their floor space is given over to trinkets, pictures, and assorted &quot;junk.&quot;  Then there is Sunday school literature.  Most of our Sunday school classes and teachers--even the senior citizens, the most &quot;brand loyal&quot; of them all--are less than satisfied with LifeWay stuff.  Personally, I find it shallow, but I have not influenced the class&#039;s decisions, who now want other options.

John Daly and Bob Cleveland are on target, I think.

Is the economy partly to blame for LifeWay&#039;s decision?  Certainly; there is less discretionary spending, BUT part of that is that people are having to become more savy customers, and want the most bang for their scarce, hard-earned buck.  They recognize that LifeWay is not giving them that.  Like Bro. Daly said. . . .

John Fariss</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THIS is flabbergasting!  An outrage!  Unheard of!  And I don&#8217;t mean the subject, or the comments.  My reference is that David volfan007 and I agree on something!  (What&#8217;s next?  That Jesus is the savior, and the only way for salvation?  That the Bible is the inspired, infalliable, written Word of God?)</p>
<p>I used to get a little upset that I could go into a Cokesberry (Methodist) bookstore, tell them I was a minister, and get an automatic discount, but couldn&#8217;t at a Baptist Bookstore.  They said the discount was already in their pricing structure, but I couldn&#8217;t find a nickel&#8217;s worth difference in the two at retail.  But that was a minor irritant, and the plus was a good selection of books.  Go in a LifeWay store now, and it seems half their floor space is given over to trinkets, pictures, and assorted &#8220;junk.&#8221;  Then there is Sunday school literature.  Most of our Sunday school classes and teachers&#8211;even the senior citizens, the most &#8220;brand loyal&#8221; of them all&#8211;are less than satisfied with LifeWay stuff.  Personally, I find it shallow, but I have not influenced the class&#8217;s decisions, who now want other options.</p>
<p>John Daly and Bob Cleveland are on target, I think.</p>
<p>Is the economy partly to blame for LifeWay&#8217;s decision?  Certainly; there is less discretionary spending, BUT part of that is that people are having to become more savy customers, and want the most bang for their scarce, hard-earned buck.  They recognize that LifeWay is not giving them that.  Like Bro. Daly said. . . .</p>
<p>John Fariss</p>
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