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	<title>Comments on: The Discipleship Void</title>
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	<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/07/25/the-discipleship-void/</link>
	<description>life :: theology :: church :: ministry :: missions :: worship</description>
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		<title>By: Thoughts on Family Focused Faith (Part 5) &#124; sbc IMPACT!</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/07/25/the-discipleship-void/#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>Thoughts on Family Focused Faith (Part 5) &#124; sbc IMPACT!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 06:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=512#comment-54</guid>
		<description>[...] family focused faith (based on Voddie Baucham Jr.&#8217;s book), has touched on a number of topics: the discipleship void, issues with modern Christian parenting, cultural influences affecting our views toward kids, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] family focused faith (based on Voddie Baucham Jr.&#8217;s book), has touched on a number of topics: the discipleship void, issues with modern Christian parenting, cultural influences affecting our views toward kids, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Thoughts on Family Focused Faith (Part 1) &#124; sbc IMPACT!</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/07/25/the-discipleship-void/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>Thoughts on Family Focused Faith (Part 1) &#124; sbc IMPACT!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=512#comment-53</guid>
		<description>[...] couple weeks back, I shared the introductory post to this series (&#8220;The Discipleship Void&#8221;), where I shared a few facts and figures that seem to indicate that there is a real lack of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] couple weeks back, I shared the introductory post to this series (&#8220;The Discipleship Void&#8221;), where I shared a few facts and figures that seem to indicate that there is a real lack of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Brazzeal</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/07/25/the-discipleship-void/#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>David Brazzeal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=512#comment-52</guid>
		<description>I think people today are looking for more than what we&#039;ve been giving them. We&#039;ve turned discipleship in to a series of courses. Discipleship is learning to follow Jesus not just rational teaching. It has helped me to broaden what this means: I try to follow Jesus...
...who was compassionate to the poor and the oppressed
...who was a creative story-teller and even performance artist
...who was a spiritual mystic, spending blocks of time alone
...who lived in simplicity, treaded gently on the earth and borrowed a lot of things from friends
...who was a great friend and companion on the journey
...who enjoyed a good party every now and then

I think this is why Shane Claiborne&#039;s book &quot;The Irresistible Revolution&quot; has become so hugely popular among young people because it presents a radically holistic way of following Jesus that we haven&#039;t been talking about in most of our churches.

Blessings
db</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think people today are looking for more than what we&#8217;ve been giving them. We&#8217;ve turned discipleship in to a series of courses. Discipleship is learning to follow Jesus not just rational teaching. It has helped me to broaden what this means: I try to follow Jesus&#8230;<br />
&#8230;who was compassionate to the poor and the oppressed<br />
&#8230;who was a creative story-teller and even performance artist<br />
&#8230;who was a spiritual mystic, spending blocks of time alone<br />
&#8230;who lived in simplicity, treaded gently on the earth and borrowed a lot of things from friends<br />
&#8230;who was a great friend and companion on the journey<br />
&#8230;who enjoyed a good party every now and then</p>
<p>I think this is why Shane Claiborne&#8217;s book &#8220;The Irresistible Revolution&#8221; has become so hugely popular among young people because it presents a radically holistic way of following Jesus that we haven&#8217;t been talking about in most of our churches.</p>
<p>Blessings<br />
db</p>
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		<title>By: David Rogers</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/07/25/the-discipleship-void/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 03:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=512#comment-51</guid>
		<description>The following post I just read by J.D. Greear does a great job of fleshing out what I was talking about in comment #21.

http://jdgreear.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/07/acts-2028-and-the-dilemma-of-church-growth.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following post I just read by J.D. Greear does a great job of fleshing out what I was talking about in comment #21.</p>
<p><a href="http://jdgreear.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/07/acts-2028-and-the-dilemma-of-church-growth.html" rel="nofollow">http://jdgreear.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/07/acts-2028-and-the-dilemma-of-church-growth.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: David R. Brumbelow</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/07/25/the-discipleship-void/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>David R. Brumbelow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 22:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=512#comment-50</guid>
		<description>John,
Why do youth drop out of church after High School?  Many reasons.  Let me give one thought.

Many churches have a disconnect between youth and the rest of church.  They’re among youth in Sunday School, Sunday Morning Worship, and the Wednesday Night Youth Program.  They go on mission trips and recreational trips together.  Youth ministry is big.

Then they wander into a no man’s land too old for the youth and not quite adults.  They don’t fit in with the adults anyway.  No exciting programs; not much entertainment.

I grew up in relatively small churches.  Some youth activities but not a lot.  I was forced to go to church on Sunday night.  Every Sunday night.  I missed the entire era of the TV series Bonanza and Disney.  Sometimes my two brothers and I were the only youth at church on Sunday night.  We were forced to sing hymns and listen to dad preach and teach the Bible to adults.  No Wednesday night youth program.  I was forced to go to the Wednesday night Bible Study and Prayer Meeting with a bunch of old codgers.  Every Wednesday of my life.

I got to know and respect those old folks.  When I started becoming an adult I already knew a little about them, and very little about Bonanza and Disney.  I knew church must be important since I’d been forced to attend.  I saw that my parents really believed and practiced their Christianity.  With or without a youth director, and with or without other youth in attendance, I learned God’s Word.  Maybe especially on Sunday and Wednesday nights.  Our youth were thoroughly mixed in with the adults (not just the adult youth workers).  Our youth were just a part of the church.  I’ve never been able to get rid of that insidious influence.  My two brothers and I are all Southern Baptist pastors today.
Every now and then I even get to watch a Bonanza rerun.  Life is good.
David R. Brumbelow</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,<br />
Why do youth drop out of church after High School?  Many reasons.  Let me give one thought.</p>
<p>Many churches have a disconnect between youth and the rest of church.  They’re among youth in Sunday School, Sunday Morning Worship, and the Wednesday Night Youth Program.  They go on mission trips and recreational trips together.  Youth ministry is big.</p>
<p>Then they wander into a no man’s land too old for the youth and not quite adults.  They don’t fit in with the adults anyway.  No exciting programs; not much entertainment.</p>
<p>I grew up in relatively small churches.  Some youth activities but not a lot.  I was forced to go to church on Sunday night.  Every Sunday night.  I missed the entire era of the TV series Bonanza and Disney.  Sometimes my two brothers and I were the only youth at church on Sunday night.  We were forced to sing hymns and listen to dad preach and teach the Bible to adults.  No Wednesday night youth program.  I was forced to go to the Wednesday night Bible Study and Prayer Meeting with a bunch of old codgers.  Every Wednesday of my life.</p>
<p>I got to know and respect those old folks.  When I started becoming an adult I already knew a little about them, and very little about Bonanza and Disney.  I knew church must be important since I’d been forced to attend.  I saw that my parents really believed and practiced their Christianity.  With or without a youth director, and with or without other youth in attendance, I learned God’s Word.  Maybe especially on Sunday and Wednesday nights.  Our youth were thoroughly mixed in with the adults (not just the adult youth workers).  Our youth were just a part of the church.  I’ve never been able to get rid of that insidious influence.  My two brothers and I are all Southern Baptist pastors today.<br />
Every now and then I even get to watch a Bonanza rerun.  Life is good.<br />
David R. Brumbelow</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Woodward</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/07/25/the-discipleship-void/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Woodward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=512#comment-49</guid>
		<description>John,

My guess is that when you hear the term &#039;Youth Pastor&#039; thrown around by some churches, you may have the image of some kid who doesn&#039;t know his own theology, wants to be a relationship counselor, and primarily spends his time planning paintball games and XBox festivals.

Let me say that when I use the term &#039;Youth Pastor&#039; I think of one of our elders who has oversight for the ministry, who is in accountability to the rest of our elders, and who understands that his role in the discipleship of youth, in most cases, is primarily supplemental to that of the parents.

Maybe our disagreement is just semantics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>My guess is that when you hear the term &#8216;Youth Pastor&#8217; thrown around by some churches, you may have the image of some kid who doesn&#8217;t know his own theology, wants to be a relationship counselor, and primarily spends his time planning paintball games and XBox festivals.</p>
<p>Let me say that when I use the term &#8216;Youth Pastor&#8217; I think of one of our elders who has oversight for the ministry, who is in accountability to the rest of our elders, and who understands that his role in the discipleship of youth, in most cases, is primarily supplemental to that of the parents.</p>
<p>Maybe our disagreement is just semantics.</p>
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		<title>By: M. Steve Heartsill</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/07/25/the-discipleship-void/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Steve Heartsill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=512#comment-48</guid>
		<description>John, like most commentors on here, I too disagree with your thoughts about youth pastors. No, the Bible doesn&#039;t say to have Ministers of Youth in the local church, but the Bible also doesn&#039;t tell us to do many of the things we do. If I am not mistaken, the Bible doesn&#039;t really tell us much about the organization or functionality of the daily church.

Then again, in the book of Acts, the Christians gave everything they owned to the support of the work and poor? If we follow your logic of not doing something because the Bible doesn&#039;t mention it, then the question that begs to be asked is are you giving away everything to support God&#039;s work?

So, if you are heading up the youth ministry in your church or leading it, are you failing God by doing so? Isn&#039;t that what you said parents should be doing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, like most commentors on here, I too disagree with your thoughts about youth pastors. No, the Bible doesn&#8217;t say to have Ministers of Youth in the local church, but the Bible also doesn&#8217;t tell us to do many of the things we do. If I am not mistaken, the Bible doesn&#8217;t really tell us much about the organization or functionality of the daily church.</p>
<p>Then again, in the book of Acts, the Christians gave everything they owned to the support of the work and poor? If we follow your logic of not doing something because the Bible doesn&#8217;t mention it, then the question that begs to be asked is are you giving away everything to support God&#8217;s work?</p>
<p>So, if you are heading up the youth ministry in your church or leading it, are you failing God by doing so? Isn&#8217;t that what you said parents should be doing?</p>
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		<title>By: David Rogers</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/07/25/the-discipleship-void/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=512#comment-47</guid>
		<description>John,

As you infer here, parents should be the main ones accountable for keeping up with the discipleship progress of their own children. I agree that the church should help parents in this task, and provide resourcs and support in order to help them do it better. But, I see nothing wrong with other people (i.e. youth directors, workers) coming alongside parents in a support role as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>As you infer here, parents should be the main ones accountable for keeping up with the discipleship progress of their own children. I agree that the church should help parents in this task, and provide resourcs and support in order to help them do it better. But, I see nothing wrong with other people (i.e. youth directors, workers) coming alongside parents in a support role as well.</p>
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		<title>By: David Rogers</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/07/25/the-discipleship-void/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 12:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=512#comment-46</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that it would be good to have some system in place in which someone was specifically assigned to keep track, in one way or another, of the discipleship progress of each member of a church. This could be, for example, small group leaders who know, and watch out for the discipleship needs of each member of their group. Or, it could be some other system. In any case, there should not be near as much room for anonymous, spectator type of Christianity as there is many, many congregations today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that it would be good to have some system in place in which someone was specifically assigned to keep track, in one way or another, of the discipleship progress of each member of a church. This could be, for example, small group leaders who know, and watch out for the discipleship needs of each member of their group. Or, it could be some other system. In any case, there should not be near as much room for anonymous, spectator type of Christianity as there is many, many congregations today.</p>
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		<title>By: John Daly</title>
		<link>http://sbcimpact.org/2008/07/25/the-discipleship-void/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>John Daly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 12:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sbcimpact.net/?p=512#comment-45</guid>
		<description>I guess that&#039;s up to you in regards to who qualifies as an elder. A high office indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess that&#8217;s up to you in regards to who qualifies as an elder. A high office indeed.</p>
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