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tagged: Baptist Life, Church, Church Planting, Culture, Geoff Baggett, Missional, Missions, SBC Issues, Testimonies, TheologyI Am a Bridge Builder!
Posted by Geoff Baggett in Baptist Life
There was once a time in my life and ministry … and it was only a scant few years ago … when I wouldn’t even consider purchasing a resource or attending an event that was not published or sponsored by some entity within the Southern Baptist Convention. I just didn’t trust anything else. I was something of a “yellow dog” Southern Baptist. If it was SBC, I trusted it … no questions asked.
But things have changed for me. I’ve figured out a few things over the years. First, just because something has the “SBC” label on it doesn’t mean that it’s the best thing … the only thing … out there. And, second, I have discovered in rather dramatic and personal fashion that, just because a person is a Southern Baptist, it doesn’t mean that said person is … well … nice. And, finally, I learned what is, for me, the most important lesson of all. Other believers (besides Southern Baptists) are actually saved, they genuinely love Jesus, and they are going to be in heaven with me someday. (I know … huge shock, huh?)
So, in my “old age” and maturity, I have made the deliberate, conscious, life-changing decision to be a bridge-builder across denominational, racial, and cultural lines for the sake of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Interestingly, bridge-building seems to have fallen upon hard times in some corners of Southern Baptist life as of late. Indeed, it seems that the only “bridges” that some in the SBC want to build are “… within the SBC in order have a GCR (Great Commission Resurgence) within the SBC.” I, personally, find the idea of “building bridges within the SBC” a bit unusual. I thought we were, by identity and definition, already on the “same bridge.”
I don’t believe that we need to “build bridges” to people who look the same, think the same, serve the same, act the same, worship the same, ARE the same as we are. Indeed, if we become so engrossed in uniformity and conformity within the SBC, we will already be together … on our own little Baptist island. And if we’re all on that island together, then why in the world do we need to “build bridges?” Wouldn’t they actually be overpasses? Hmmm…
I look at it much differently, I suppose. I have made it my personal goal to build bridges to people who are different from me. People of different cultures. People with different ideas. People from different denominations. I know that there will be times when we will disagree on certain things. I know that there will be difficulties when doctrinal differences arise. But it is when those differences crop up that grown folk have the opportunity to act like grown folk, work through the difficulties, and do their best.
I have had my Southern Baptist “comfort zone” stretched to the max on the international mission field. I have discovered, personally, how important Great Commission partners truly are. My church works in a very distant, isolated area in the Andes Mountains of Peru. There is no Baptist work there. But there are a few believers there. I have discovered brothers and sisters in the Lord who are faithful members of Christian Missionary and Alliance Churches, the Assembly of God church, and the Peruvian Evangelical Church. I saw their passion. I saw their love for the Lord. And I saw their needs.
So I (we … our Southern Baptist Church) decided to build bridges. Rather than patronize or belittle or simply ignore these evangelical believers (because they’re not Baptists), we elected to embrace them as brothers and sisters, pray for their churches, and train them in sound doctrine and church planting. We want to see Quechua believers plant uniquely Quechua churches in those mountain villages. And we are working to that end. And I believe, with all my heart, that God is pleased.
So, yes, I am a bridge builder. I have no interest in constructing Southern Baptist “overpasses” to the other side of our island. I choose the Kingdom of God over a Baptist fiefdom.
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I must disagree with one statement, Geoff.
I don’t believe “building bridges” has fallen on hard times in the SBC. It’s simply that too many of them are building drawbridges…..
I trust we know when to build a bridge and when to construct a barrier. Does our bridge for example extend all the way to Rome?
Bob – I said, “…in some corners of SBC life.”
John – We have some pretty stark differences with regard to the fundamentals of the faith (when it comes to the RC church). So, for the most part, I would say, “No,” … but,, then again, there are some things that we can cooperate to accomplish.
Anyhow, give us an example of what you are thinking.
What if we build bridges with these people?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8pWtpOWQ-k
Or, with these people?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7_Dpdnz9c
I guess, Geoff, once again, that’s the question for me. How can you build bridges with people who are into charismatic practices and stay true to the Bible? I’m not saying, nor is anyone else that I hear saying that we’re the only ones going to heaven. No one that I’ve heard is saying that Presbyterians who baptise babies dont love Jesus. No one that I know is saying that Southern Baptists are the only ones going to heaven. I’m sure that there will be some Pentecostals and Assembly of God’s and Presbyterians, and even some Methodists
there. And, there will be some Southern Baptists who will be in hell. So, that’s not really the issue here. The issue is….winning souls and starting Churches and discipling Christians in a way that is the best way…the way that leads them to spiritual maturity…the way that leads them to sound doctrine….the way that leads them to know God’s will and plans and desires…and, I dont believe that you can find any of that in a Church that teaches that you can lose your salvation, that you have to speak in ecstatic utterances in order to prove either a)that you’re saved; or, b)that you have the Holy Spirit in you.
David
Brother Geoff,
I am with you on building bridges outside the SBC as well,…in fact it is much easier some of the time to do just that. I think your right that the SBCer’s are on the same bridge, yet in many cases those SBCer’s won’t even talk to each other in the same city (competition, pride, arrogance, etc.). My hope is that the SBCer’s will turn and face each other on the same bridge and begin to speak, love, and commission.
I think the “building bridges” analogy is illusrating the distance between some as you have stated… that are on the same bridge.
Blessings,
Chris
Well the pro-life movement seems to be an apt example. In our town you have all sorts of folks who are involved in a worthy and just cause. From those who hold to a false gospel to those who hold to nothing. It’s a personal decision each true Believer must make on how deep to forge relationships. In my opinion if it gets to the point where the issue reigns supreme and the Christian has lost their flavor then much damage is done to the cause of Christ.
Our winsome disposition along with words of truth should be at the forefront. There is no issue that trumps truth and there is no issue where I need to forsake truth for some sort of legislative action.
IF…as you say, there are some things that we “can cooperate to accomplish.” I have a feeling that after a few days of hearing what Christ has done for sinners and how they are in eternal error, I might not be welcome there anymore. And as you rightly say in your post: “And I believe, with all my heart, that God is pleased.”
Chris – Excellent point. Competition and pride are huge fellowship “killers” within the SBC. Especially between established churches and newer church plants.
John – I see what you mean. Your pro-life example is a good one. Sometimes we get so caught up in a common cause that we lose a little of ourselves in the “noise” of the effort. But if, as we work to accomplish some common goals, our differences become too noticeable or insurmountable, that will certainly become evident. Indeed, we might not be welcome anymore. And that’s okay.
I know that on several youth mission trips that I have participated in, we as Baptists have partnered with some RC ministries … primarily food/feeding operations, housing, healthcare, etc… We actually worked to provide labor for some of their humanitarian pursuits. And I think that’s good. I think our willingness to work alongside people who are distinctly different from us reflects a true Christ-focused heart.
Anyhow … I’m rambling … about to head out with our youth at Fuge.
Geoff,
Hey, what happened to my comment? Did yall delete it? And, if so, why?
David
Wow, I dont know what’s going on…if it’s my computer, or not, but now, my first comment is back up with a “your comment is awaiting moderation” note on it. What’s going on?
David
Geoff,
Excellent post. I couldn’t agree with you more.
David (volfie),
It’s our BI detector weeding out those comments.
Les
For me to build bridges with someone, I would have to be willing to put aside differences. On some things, that would be no problem. I could conceive of working with someone who was not a Calvinist, for instance. There are some lines, however, that I would not be willing to cross. If saying that I would not work with someone in ministry who believed that women can pastor a church or that we can’t really say homosexuality is always a sin makes me isolationist I think I can live with that and go to sleep with a perfectly clear conscience. It would be very difficult for me to minister to a group of people where a partner of mine is telling them “When you get the Holy Spirit, you’ll speak in tongues” because I would immediately correct them.
There are some differences that do not matter. There are many differences that do matter. We should choose wisely what hill we’re willing to die on.
David (vol) -
Just so you remember (and everybody else as well) – two or more external links are always sent to moderation – no exceptions (the software works no other way I guess). I put it back up, but I do think you could have made your point with just one
Les – be civil
Rob
Les,
Rob,
Thanks for the explanation. And, I just couldnt leave out either one. Both links give a good, overall picture; dont you think?
David
David,
I don’t think either one (of your linked examples) gives a good overall picture. They are merely hyperbolic examples, which intimate that, “Anyone who is not exactly like us will wind up doing this…” Those links seem to say that you think anyone whose doctrinal beliefs are not in line with yours must act that way. I assure you … not all (probably most) do not act like the examples you have linked from YouTube. They are tragic, sad extremes of a perversion of the Gospel and Christianity.
But how in the world can you encounter Christians of other doctrinal backgrounds and help point them toward sound doctrine unless you actually engage them personally and even minister at their side?
You say that you would rather be “…winning souls and starting Churches and discipling Christians in a way that is the best way.” I tend to think that, as long as they receive true salvation through Jesus Christ, it IS the right way.
“bridge-building seems to have fallen upon hard times in some corners of Southern Baptist life as of late”
This may be the understatement of the decade. Most SBC leaders are like the current administration and border security-”Build a wall as high as we can!”
You guys are on fire here. This is the best practical group blog in Baptist life, hands down. From David Rogers’ most recent post to Bowden’s posts on stress in ministry to this one, this is just really good stuff. Keep it up.
Geoff: This post is very much in line with what I mean when I use the words “building bridges.”
I guess I wonder why it’s ok to work with people outside of orthodoxy for secular political reasons, but not ok to work with those outside of the SB for the sake of the gospel.
Paul,
Thanks a bunch. Practical is what we’re shooting for. Tell all your friends, and add us to your blogroll.
David (Volfan) Worley,
You say: “The issue is….winning souls and starting Churches and discipling Christians in a way that is the best way…the way that leads them to spiritual maturity…the way that leads them to sound doctrine….the way that leads them to know God’s will and plans and desires.”
I am in agreement with you here. I think this is a good starting point. However, I think it is good to keep in mind that God’s Word, in Ephesians 4, links spiritual maturity with unity with the whole Body of Christ.
“until we all reach UNITY in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become MATURE, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.”
Also, it was (and is) Jesus’ desire that we all be one, just as He and the Father are one.
I will admit that there is sometimes a tension between seeking this unity towards which growing in maturity, and a desire to fulfill the desire of Jesus will lead us, and a parallel desire for sound doctrine. Thus, I am not suggesting forgetting all about sound doctrine in the name of unity.
However, I think we must be clear that the unity that Jesus prayed for, and that Paul wrote about in Eph. 4, is not just local church unity, or intra-denominational unity. It is the unity of all the Body of Christ. That is, all those who are truly born again. And, all those groups who preach a gospel that will lead you to be truly born again.
Geoff,
You’ll get plenty of props from me in due time.
Brother David,
The emphasis that you have just illuminated by Paul to the Ephesians is extremely important and conveniently overlooked by many church leaders. The Apostle seems to understand that as God calls His church, the call is not to isolation! An isolationist policy by a church is directly opposed to the biblical definition of unity given by God.
The key for leadership is to determine what provides unity and build out the commission from there….and we all know that the unity is Christ not policy (and policies can be good), ….but, its just becomes difficult for some to depend on Christ to guide the policy, and jettison the policy if need be, but never Christ.
Blessings,
Chris
David Rogers,
I’m all for unity of Christians. And, as soon as the Methodists stop sprinkling for baptism, and believe in the eternal security of the Believer, then we can have it. Why wont THEY stop believing in errors so that we can have unity?
Also, as soon as the Charismatic/Pentecostal type groups stop believing that someone can lose thier salvation, and/or that you have to speak in ecstatic utterances for the evidence of either being saved, or of having the Holy Spirit inside of you; then we can have much unity. Why do they refuse to stop believing such errors, and thus, destroy unity? I would be glad to join with this group of Believers as soon as they stop holding to errors in doctrine.
Now, let me pause here….let me add a parenthesis at this moment….I love the Methodist Believer. I love the Charismatic/Pentecostal type Believer. Shucks, I even love the baby baptising Presbyterians. And, let me add that I have a good relationship with the Methodist and Presbyterian and Pentecostal Pastors in my town. I even attend the Methodist Sr. Adult Coffee break ever so often. But, what I can join with them to do is very limited due to thier errors in doctrine that I do not want spread to others.
Geoff,
I believe that the two video links that I gave above are very relevant to this conversation. I have seen several Churches turn Charismatic due to the influence of some Charismatic getting thier foot in the door of a Church thru friendships. In fact, I know of a Church that used to exist over in the Bootheel of Missouri that was a good, sound Church. It was a small Church, and it had it’s struggles, as all Churches do. Well, somehow, someway, the Pastor of that Church started getting off into the Charismatic stuff. The people followed him willingly….gladly. At first, it was minor things…small changes here and there. And, the Church grew from it. They gained in attendance. Other Charismatics started coming in, and they didnt turn Baptist. They stayed Charismatic. And, the Pastor preached unity between all Christians, and how there shouldnt be denominations, etc. all the time. And then, all of a sudden, the Pastor was talking about God telling him to get rid of the hymnbooks, and God didnt want anyone to be sick, and all the other Charismatic/Pentecostal type things started coming in. Well, it killed that Church. They no longer exist. The members drifted into several other Churches in the area…all types of Churches. A handful of the people, including my Uncle and his family, saw the error and the extreme of what happened in thier Church, and they went to the First Baptist Church in that town. Even though they fully embraced the Charismatic move of that Church, and they loved that Pastor dearly, they saw how extreme and in error that stuff was, and now they are faithful members of the First Baptist Church. Thank God!
When I think about all the joining together in unity speeches and the no denominations sermons, and then I think about the Churches and the people who have been led off into Charismatic extremes and errors; I think about that little song of long ago….”It only takes a spark, to get a fi-ire gooiiing…”
David
David Worley,
I don’t know if you have seen this quote by Ray Ortlund, Jr. that has been making its way around several blogs the last couple of days. But, I would be interested in your reaction. I think it describes very well and in a very balanced way the type of unity I am talking about…
“Whatever divides us emotionally from other Bible-believing, Christ-honoring Christians is a “plus” we’re adding to the gospel. It is the Galatian impulse of self-exaltation. It can even become a club with which we bash other Christians, at least in our thoughts, to punish, to exclude and to force into line with us.
What unifies the church is the gospel. What defines the gospel is the Bible. What interprets the Bible correctly is a hermeneutic centered on Jesus Christ crucified, the all-sufficient Savior of sinners, who gives himself away on terms of radical grace to all alike. What proves that that gospel hermeneutic has captured our hearts is that we are not looking down on other believers but lifting them up, not seeing ourselves as better but grateful for their contribution to the cause, not standing aloof but embracing them freely, not wishing they would become like us but serving them in love (Galatians 5:13).
My Reformed friend, can you move among other Christian groups and really enjoy them? Do you admire them? Even if you disagree with them in some ways, do you learn from them? What is the emotional tilt of your heart – toward them or away from them? If your Reformed theology has morphed functionally into Galatian sociology, the remedy is not to abandon your Reformed theology. The remedy is to take your Reformed theology to a deeper level. Let it reduce you to Jesus only. Let it humble you. Let this gracious doctrine make you a fun person to be around. The proof that we are Reformed will be all the wonderful Christians we discover around us who are not Reformed. Amazing people. Heroic people. Blood-bought people. People with whom we are eternally one – in Christ alone.”
David,
I would emphasize again that I do not think of myself as better than Presbyterians or Methodists. I dont look down on them in a condescending way. Also, I love them in the Lord. I do not hate them. I can also worship with them in a Casting Crowns concert. I can join with them in a food pantry/clothes closet ministry, which my Church does. I can join with them in praying for the nation, which I have done in the past. But, I cannot for the life of me see how I can join with them in starting Churches and founding seminaries,or things in that line, and yet stay true to the Bible. They are in error in some important issues. How can I, in good conscience, join with them in starting a Church where they teach errors and confusion? Why should I not rather put my time and effort and money into starting good, sound Churches?
And, David, are you ignoring the fact that they choose to be in error, thus separating themselves from us? I mean, if my wife were to all of a sudden decide to live in Wyoming, it wouldnt be that separated…it would be her. Right? Why would you tell me that I shouldnt separate myself from my wife, when she was the one who decided to live in Wyoming? Now, my wife does not really live in Wyoming, BTW. I dont want to start any rumors. I mean, the woman is too madly in love with me to live in Wyoming, while I live in God’s Tennessee.
David
David Worley,
I think the nucleus of the above quote is the following:
“…can you move among other Christian groups and really enjoy them? Do you admire them? Even if you disagree with them in some ways, do you learn from them? What is the emotional tilt of your heart – toward them or away from them?”
Naturally, I believe my own interpretation of Scripture is the correct one, or I would not hold it. But, I recognize that many others, who do not agree with my interpretation, feel the same way about theirs.
I do not plan on changing my interpretation unless I am convinced from my study of Scripture that it is wrong. I also strive to live my Christian life, and carry out my Christian ministry, in a manner as consistent as possible with my interpretation of Scripture. Our efforts to keep our unity with other believers should not force us to compromise in our efforts to live consistently with our convictions.
But, whenever living and working in closer unity with my brother and sister in Christ does not force me to compromise on my convictions in other areas, I will strive to live and work as closely as possible with them. Why? Because I believe that is how my Lord is most glorified.
The bottom line is the attitude of our heart:
“What is the emotional tilt of your heart – toward them or away from them?”
Two quotes to ponder on the issues in this thread:
1 Cor 8:2 “If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know”
The other is from G. K. Chesterton:
“It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.”
The issue of one’s own certainty in doctrine vs acknowledging that we ourselves are fallen and therefore subject to error is a toughie, and one we need to address more. It is not an easy balance. We’re called to have an utmost confidence in God, yet have to deal with the fact that we are quite capable of misunderstanding what God has told us. We do not yet ‘see face to face’, so we have to deal with ‘seeing in a glass darkly’.
This gospel minimalism seems a long distance away from a Savior who would say, “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” Sometimes it seems that folks would wish that the Bible had ended at John 21.
Bart,
It is interesting that while you were posting your comment here, I was working on a comment to your latest post at your blog addressing this same concern.
I am going to copy it here, as it is my best reply to what you say in your comment here as well:
“I am unable to fellowship with anyone who openly admits that something is a commandment from Jesus that is applicable to them, but then refuses to submit to it. By definition (at least as I understand it), such a person is not truly born again, because they have not submitted to the Lordship of Jesus.
The real issue, as I understand it, is not whether or not we submit to greater commandments or lesser commandments. The real issue is that equally sincere and committed disciples of the Lord Jesus disagree on their interpretation of certain biblical commands and doctrines.
Now, it is also true that misunderstandings and misapplications of certain teachings have greater repercussions for our faith and practice than those of others.
We each have our opinions on these matters, and it is a good thing to be convinced we are right. But, at the same time, we must be humble enough to admit that the reason other people see things differently is not necessarily because they are living in “unrepentant sin” or because they are just plain stupid.
Also, as I understand the Bible, the command to love each other, and the command to endeavor diligently to keep the unity of the faith with all true disciples, are not commands that fall toward the “lesser command” end of the spectrum.”