What Exactly is "Real"?
Posted by Rob Ayers in Church & Missions
Just the other day I was setting in a small room in a large church with several pastors and staff members. The evangelism director from our state office invited me to participate in a “mentoring” opportunity with a large church pastor.
I appreciated the invite for it provided an opportunity to fellowship with fellow pastors. Our “mentor” did a good job in providing some information about what he was doing, and how he went about his business. He provided a good informational seminar on helping “teams” be more productive (be they paid or volunteer), and even provided the book he wrote to help us remember some of the keys he saw in implementing the process.
The afternoon was a “sit down” with the church staff: the administrator, youth and children’s worker, “creative arts” pastor, and the associate pastor. They were all made available to basically sit down with us and answer questions. Our host asked us what questions we might have of him and them, wrote them down on the board. Then he with the staff preceded to give us how they approached each issue we had asked about.
One small church pastor asked about how they did capital campaigns. In fact, this church had just completed a capital campaign and the staff was doing a post mortem on the results (they were a million dollars short of their goal). In fact, this church has gone through six capital campaigns over the past ten years! The staff described then how they went about getting the funds to build the buildings for their ministry.
First of all, they hire consultants. Consultants are usually the boon of the church building game. You may hire one to tell you where to build. You may hire one to tell you how to build. Most large churches hire them to tell them how to go about raising the money through a capital campaign. This church and it’s system, as planned out by their hired consultants, was a pretty glitzy public relations campaign – full of charts, diagrams, and schedules on how one could pledge to donate money for the cause.
It was also a very business-like approach. This team of ministers had the “capital campaign” down to a science. They listed how many donors they needed at the upper tier level (this particular campaign they were hoping for at least one donor to give a $400,000 dollar pledge) with the various levels of giving all the way down to a few bucks a week.
Of course you have to pay your consultants something. Most consultants in such a fund raising scheme require three to five percent of the pledged amount (or even the pledge goal!) for their services. The budget for this particular church to pay their consultant was over $250,000. Whew! That is a lot of bread.
During the presentation, the youth and children’s minister said something to the effect, “…well there are two approaches to capital campaigns. One we found that most Baptist churches use is the one that we will describe here. The other of course is what most charismatic and non-denominational churches use, which is just wait and see what the people give rather than trying to ask them directly by pledges and things. They also do not borrow any money.”
I thought about how my church started and finished our capital campaign. Our church needed some more fellowship and educational space and believed God was moving us in that direction. We prayed about it, presented it to the people, and they agreed by consensus that this was the way they saw God was directing.
Our philosophy was multi-faceted but simple. 1) Buildings are just tools, they are not the Body of Christ – they are often a means, but never the end to the means – if we don’t have one, the work of Christ will continue and move forward; 2) “If the Lord does not build the house, they labor in vain who build it”; 3) We allow the Spirit to move through His people to produce whatever is necessary to build the building, while at the same time not harming other ministries that are in process; 4) We asked and encouraged giving in a corporate manner for funds, and did not beg well-healed individuals for money – see Item #2; and 5) We did not borrow nor would we be a slave to any banking or lending institution – rather we are servants of the King of Kings – if the King of one thousand hills does not provide the resources, He is not building the house – see Item #2.
The results were remarkable. A capital campaign project that was six times the church’s annual budget was completed in 3.5 years. Looking back, I really do not know where the money came from – it just did. Our largest one time donation was $25,000 someone placed into our bank account anonymously. Most was just ten to twenty dollars a week over and above a tithe offering. God be praised!
Now this happened at a church with about thirty families. God was faithful and provided what we needed for the time. Now I told this story to the assembled team and guests. Of course they were all amazed – yet at the same time did not believe it would work in a larger church. “That’s not reality” I was assured.
What exactly is “real?” Jesus quoted Moses when He told the devil, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word the proceeds from the mouth of God.” That bread that sustains life is not enough – that ultimately what is real is the reality of God and faith in Him. “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the presence of things not seen seen.” “Without faith it is impossible to please God.” Business principles are one thing – the principles of the Kingdom are another. Our Father desires us to see things with spiritual eyes of faith – the possibilities of course are endless, for then what can be done will be anything God can do.
Don’t worry – I am not advocating with “Word of Faith.” Charles Capps, Kenneth Hagin, and Kenneth and Gloria Copeland are just plain wrong. But what I do believe that in many ways, Baptists and churches are lead by what they can do without seeing the miracles that God can do. “Trust Me, Try Me, Prove Me.” A spiritless spirituality is a dead one, for “faith without works is dead.” Let us look to God with eyes of faith. He will do more than we can possibly ask or think if we believe He is the almighty God!



Please see “A Call for Discernment” by going to http://www.justinpeters.org. Justin is an evangelist and in addition to expository preaching, also holds seminars on the “Word of Faith” movement. He has cerebral palsy and concurs with the apostle Paul, “My grace is sufficient for thee.”
You can view his brief overview of the misleading Word of Faith movement given at Southwestern Theological Seminary here:
http://www.justinpeters.org/demo.htm
To God be the glory!
PS: Justin will be at the upcoming SBC in Indianapolis!
Rob,
What is unfortunate is that we have basically programmed God out much of what we attempt to do in the local church and in our own personal lives. We take charge of where we think we need to go and what we need to do. We make our plans, we work our plans, and then we wonder why God did not bless them as we believed He should.
I fully agree with your church’s approach. First and foremost, trust God. IF He is moving in a direction, He will give the direction, leadership, donations, teams, or whatever else is needed.
We forget, the church belongs to God, not us. The church must be directed by God, not us. The decisions of the church must be led by the Holy Spirit, again, not by us.
Rob,
What you’ve said is a breath of fresh air for this old minister [fifty years] and is a reminder of the simplicity of by-gone days of serving the Lord.
In fact, I’m not sure but what the early Church [In the book of Acts] was powerful BECAUSE of their simplicity. By that I mean they simply believed Him and lived as if He’s able and willing to be sufficient in every area of life He touches with His real presence. [This could be the reason they were willing to give up their lives when required.]
It may be the loss of power in the modern Church is in proportion to her loss of simplicity in believing His presence and reality are sufficient for what is needed.
Obviously, I nor you would say He doesn’t use things [tools/people] but the line that can be crossed in having confidence in things/people instead of Him is very easy to miss and “whatsoever is not of faith is…..” Well, you and I both know the answer to that.
Rob,
Sorry for the mis-type of your name in my comment just sent. [I did say I'm an old guy and the proof's obviously in the puddin.]
Rob,
Very interesting post. I don’t quite see how building a building is a valid test of faith though. Further, I think I know where the money came from. From the people who thought that buildings were more important than people.
God’s Glory,
Lew
Rob, our church is still in a “campaign” that has been ongoing for multiple years. Through it, we have built an entirely new building in an entirely different location. We are totally debt free and are about to break ground on a 1.6 million-dollar youth facility that will be utilized for much much more in our church fellowship, i.e. banquets, overflow S.S., and more.
Our pastor doesn’t lead us to do any building without the cash in the bank. And we are not a mega-church, but we are a large church.
Another mega church that carries this same philosphy and has lived it in marvelous and remarkable ways is Sagemont Baptist Church in Houston, Texas. I know for a fact that they assist over 179 retired ministers with supplements to their extremely limited income. (and the ministers do not all come from or belong to their church body, either). They have been doing the work of God with a love-and-care-for-your-brother mindset for many many years. If there is a church we might look to as NT, I’d have us all go down and talk to them. If you can’t go, then it would be a blessing to any pastor’s soul to have their 4-cd Sagemont Story in their listening library. What an inspiration!
selahV
Paul and Rob,
I would tend to agree with you on fundraising methodology. And I would raise the question: “is it worth it to raise more money if the methods are not biblical?” It seems odd to me that a pastoral staff who knows and loves their people would hire consultants (at six figures) to help them figure out how to get more money out of them. Why not just ask and pray together, teach sacrificial giving and leave it at that and let God do His work?
Also, I think any discussion about building church buildings should include talk about planting churches. A real faith step is for churches to say, “we have too many people for our current buildings. Let’s send some away to plant another church in a place of great need.” Now that’s faith!
Brother Rob,
We “raise our own support.” Really God does it, but we are the ones who share the stories and let brothers and sisters know how they can help. Our director is an amazing and godly man. When I first came on staff he sat me down and said, “People are interested in what is in your heart. If you share what is in your heart and make the needs know, they will respond.” He is correct. We are not at 100% at this time, but God has provided for us quicker than most missionaries who raise their support. And all we do is share what God has called us to, then let our brothers and sisters know how they can be involved. God is faithful!
May His face shine upon you,
From the Middle East
One more thing:
I think it is quite humorous the amount of concern by some over the potential for syncretism on the mission field when we have many “senior pastors” who look a lot like corporate CEOs and talk about things like “giving units,” “consultants,” “vision statements,” “mission statements,” etc. Could we be syncretized with corporate America?
May His Word guide us,
From the Middle East
Here’s another example of a state convention thinking that large church principles will work in small churches. The small church environment and culture is vastly different from the large church. Perhaps a more beneficial “mentor” to pastors of small churches would be a small church pastor who has recently completed a successful building program.
It’s sad that our leaders view large churches as the only effective churches in the Kingdom of God.
Les, it’s sad that “some” of our leaders view large churches as the only effective churches in the Kingdom of God. But hardly do all of our leaders hold small churches with such insignificance. selahV
SelahV,
I agree that there are some who hold what God is doing in the small church with more esteem than others. Frank Page is a wonderful example of a leader who truly wants to help small churches. I hear a lot of talk from other folks, but, to put it bluntly, talk is cheap. The true views of the SBC leaders are conveyed by their actions.
Why is there no small church oriented literature at Lifeway? Why has Broadman and Homan not published one single book on working in the small church? Why are very few of our leaders stepping up and calling for more help for leaders in the small church? Why do state conventions like the example mentioned by Rob, only view large church pastors as valid mentors? I could go on and on.
You’re right in that there are some. But from where I sit, they are few in number.
Les
Thank you all for your comments.
Steve: Amen!
Paul: Thanks for stopping by and commenting! You make a great point – God is the focus in whatever we do, and reliance and following Him are much more important than anything we do, for, “Obedience is better than sacrifice.”
Lew: God desires our faith in Him in whatever we do albeit buy a car or build a house. The item or project is not important (God cares little about them) but our faithfulness in listening to Him is paramount. “Seek and you shall find – Knock and it will be opened for you” – somehow I do not believe that promise delimits a local body of believers in raising funds to put a roof over their heads to facilitate and encourage their continued work in the community God has planted them.
Selah -
Thank you for your affirmation. And I will agree with your assertion of “some” the philosophy in my experience that Les asserts is a pervasive one. I am seeking the courage or writing a thank you note to my state evangelism director, thanking him for the opportunity, but encouraging him that the large church pastor, while encouraging, had just a little to share with some of us.
Roger -
I agree with your church planting methodology wholeheartedly! This church hoped in it’s long-range plan to be a multi-church site – something I have disagreed with for a long time, but find myself in contradiction to even some of my fellow collaborators on this blog.
Les,
I thought of you whenever I was invited about what exactly you would say with some of the other contributors to the small church conference. It was quite obvious that I was the only one who attended that conference present that day. I made quite a few faces with some of the things that were being said – rightly because “these people do not have a clue.” But otherwise, I did benefit from my participation. I just hope that it was a two way thing.
Rob
Middle,
Thanks from my heart for your comments, and certainly for your work. Your guest post yesterday made me cry. Jesus is indeed worthy! Your notes about syncretism with the corporate mentality with the churches in America is all to readily apparent.
Rob
Well, Les, from where I am sitting you are agreeing with me that “few” leaders are taking pastors of small churches for granted in “Kingdom” work. That’s great! Now to your questions. Remember, you asked.
~~Gee, why don’t you ask Broadman and Holman your question on why there are no books published for small church pastors?
~~I cannot speculate on what Lifeway is doing as far as producing the kind of literature you feel is necessary for small church needs. I will say that the materials I’ve had in the past fit quite well with all of our needs in our churches. In fact they gave us so much material one could have taught Vacation Bible School six times with all the great ideas in their curriculum. I even took some of the ideas that I didn’t use in VBS and used them when I was teaching youth in Discipleship Training. I would think a pastor educated at seminary (or not) who is leading a church could easily take the material we have from Lifeway and adapt it to their own situation. That’s what I did as a teacher when I had a Singles Sunday School class with only one person in it and multiple prospects. Guess what? It grew in spite of me not having literature written for teaching one person in my class instead of a group of people. And Lifeway produces some of the finest family literature we could offer folks to read on Homelife, Teenagers, Children and Preschoolers. The salvation plan is in every one of them. Even if a church can’t afford to purchase magazines for each family, they can get one and pass it around like a library book. And the Open Windows has always been a great piece of literature to hand out to lost folks when going door to door. Don’t even have to give them a whole magazine. Just tear out a couple of days from an old one. Same for Sunday School quarterlies. Call up some of those mega churches and get them to collect their old literature and then use it for the small churches in your association. It won’t hurt anyone if the dates don’t necessarily coincide with the actual date. Great day in the morning…I, like you, Les, “could go on and on.”
Rob, excuse me for going offpoint of your topic on capital-campaigns with Les’s little rabbit trail of questions. I don’t think literature writing was the intent of your post, but then I could be wrong, I’ve misread folk’s intentions before.
Les, I sense a real disquiet in your spirit with your “blunt” statement regarding “talk” being “cheap.” If you are elected President, is your talk going to be expensive?
You ask, “Why do state conventions like the example mentioned by Rob, only view large church pastors as valid mentors?” I have no idea. Can you tell us? If I wanted to know the answer to that question I’d go to each and every state convention and ask them, though. Hey, maybe they’ll put you on their next program. You could be the Small-church leader extraordinaire going from state to state. Wouldn’t that be something?
I should probably stop answering your questions now and let someone else get a word in edgewise.
But while I have your attention, what is a small church to you? Some say it is 50 to 100. Others 3 to 25. Then some view small church as 200-350. Anyone know how many is small? selahV
SelahV,
I’m always happy to answer your questions to the best of my ability.
1. I have asked B&H. No response.
2. Lifeway still does not have literature written for small church environments. I have approached Lifeway about the issue. No response yet.
3. Speaking of sensing attitudes, I sense that yours is antagonistic of my views. That’s okay. I’m used to it from your buddy Peter.
I’m not looking to be put on anyone’s program. I am advocating that the SBC takes small churches more seriously. Why does that disturb you so?
Dear Les, I am so sorry you felt it necessary to call into question my attitude. If you go back and look at my comment to your own admission of being “blunt”, I placed a smiley face beside it. I was joking with you.
Now I must ask, what does my opposition to your views have to do with an evaluation of my attitude? Opposition is simply a difference of an opinion. Was I snotty? I didn’t agree with your blanket statement regarding SBC Leadership: “It’s sad that our leaders view large churches as the only effective churches in the Kingdom of God.” I agree, it would be “sad” if ALL the leadership was that way. But I don’t think it is, and I don’t think there is a huge group of leaders,if any, who feel “large churches are the only effective churches in the Kingdom of God”, either.
Now, I’m wondering, should I consider you having an antagonistic attitude toward my views because you do not agree with me? Do you feel that way about anyone who holds a view different from your own? As antagonistic?
What in the world does Peter have to do with this conversation, anyway? He hasn’t even commented. Why bring him up? Now that is “sad”, Les. Really “sad”. selahV
Les, opps. Forgot to answer your last question. “I’m not looking to be put on anyone’s program. I am advocating that the SBC takes small churches more seriously. Why does that disturb you so?”
Lands alive, Les. I didn’t say you were “looking to be put on anyone’s program”. I was suggesting a great idea for your advocations, that is all. The idea came when I answered your question, that’s all.
It doesn’t disturb me at all that you are advocating that the SBC be more interested in small churches. I know I am on record as commending your efforts of the Small Church Conference. And I meant every word of that validation. I’m sorry you feel as though I am disturbed that you care for small churches. I can assure you I am not. I’m not even disturbed that you think the SBC doesn’t take them seriously. I just think you are wrong. selahV
Dear ones,
Please consider the purpose of the original post. I sympathize with both perspectives in that as a small church pastor I too have felt that both the institutions and leadership of the entities of the SBC have not had the small church in mind – that “perception” is affirmed by what Les has said – as well as I have not necessarily laid that on a majority of leaders, or believe that in the majority is a conscious slight towards the small church by our leaders – as Selah has shared with us. Our leadership just need some graceful edification and loving education on the plight of small churches in our convention. I believe that what Les has done this well as he as both communicated and educated leadership about the small church. The conference on the small church was yeoman work and much needed.
Dear ones, the purpose of this post was to give glory to God – to use the eyes of faith and train our eyes upon Him and His purpose, and to not lose sight upon the wiles of sinful humanity and their imperfections. You both are dear friends of mine. Let us here walk in peace and unity with our eyes focused on Him to His glory.
Rob
SelahV,
Sorry if I misinterpreted your comments. I’m a bit testy today. Pre-convention jitters perhaps.
Have a great day.
Les
“Could we be syncretized with corporate America?”
Yes.