Is the Sky Blue … or Is It Falling?
Posted by Guest Author in Baptist Life
Our guest writer today is Keith Price. Keith was born and raised on a small farm in southeastern, Michigan. He graduated from an all-boys Catholic high school in 1980 and received a B.S. in Engineering from Michigan State in 1985. After attending graduate engineering school at NC State he moved out west and began working in the food processing industry. It was in California that he made his connection with the SBC. After 17 years of working in the food processing industry to pay the bills he surrendered to the call of God that he had been running from since his youth.
Keith has been involved in teaching youth, Sunday School and discipleship classes since 1987. In 2003 he became the pastor of Willow Creek Baptist Church in Heppner, Oregon, where he ministers among the greatest people on earth. Keith has been married to Deana for nearly 23 years. They have three wonderful kids: Sarah, a freshman in college, Erin, a sophomore in high school and Jacob, a sixth grader. Keith is currently attending GGBTS in the MDiv program.
Keith has decided to take the “big leap” on his first post at sbc IMPACT! and add his insights to the recent noisy debate over LifeWay’s recent 2007 ACP statistics and Ed Stetzer’s analysis that the SBC is now in full-fledged decline as a denomination. We wish him well …
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I can remember my hermeneutics professor at seminary saying “I know it says that, but does it mean that?” Numbers are funny this way also, and I would guess that numbers and statistic have been as wrongly used as the Bible. Each side of an issue will look at the same numbers and interpret them differently. And just like I have witnessed a lot of bad biblical hermeneutics, I have witnessed a lot of bad statistical analysis. The buzz about the SBC ACP numbers is no exception.
First off, understand that the analysis of the ACP numbers is inherently difficult. We are in the realm of multiple variables and multivariate statistical analysis. There is a lot of information that is missing, unknown or has not been provided. Most of what I have read in posts and comments shows a wide range of misunderstanding of statistical analysis that moves from basic to criminal stupidity. We keep seeing a lot of the same poor statistical quotes and numbers used over and over again. As Inigo Montoya said to Vizzini in the Princess Bride, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means.” I could give examples, but the point of this post is not to give a statistics lesson. Actually the point of this post is to give me an opportunity to show my ignorance.
I am not a statistics expert, however I have had graduate level statistic courses and have spent most of my career as an engineer researching problems, particularly process, taking data and then developing solutions based upon interpreting the data. Over those years I have learned to understand what the “numbers” say, what they mean, and especially what they don’t say or mean. Suffice to say, I probably have more experience in this area than the average bear. With that standard disclaimer let’s look at some numbers…
The Basics. I used the ACP numbers from 1991 through the present. On certain items I went back further in order to observe some trends, but I like the numbers from 1991 because they include AM worship attendance. I also did some checking on US trends for comparisons. Since 1991 the US Population has grown about 21% with an average death rate of 0.89%. Inflationary pressures on the US dollar would make a $1 in 1991 equal to about $1.50 today. I put in the death rate because someone will ask this. Just so you can get an idea of the magnitude of the numbers, since 1991 about 750,000 people that attend SBC churches on a given Sunday have died (about 44,000/yr).
I looked at the following categories: Churches, Baptisms, Total Membership, Resident Membership, SS Enrollment, SS Avg. Attend, AM Worship, and Total Gifts. Some of the categories I like better than others. For example Churches is a good category. You can count them and they are pretty well defined. Baptisms, SS attendance, AM worship attendance, and total gifts are OK categories. They too are pretty well defined however there are some questions about these categories. For example let’s look at some questions surrounding baptisms. How many are rededications, validations, or new converts? Is that ratio changing? Similar type questions can be asked about the other categories as well. Total membership, resident membership and SS enrollment on the other hand are poor numbers for any detailed analysis. What makes up these numbers? Each church may define them differently. How often are these numbers updated? There are too many questions surrounding them to get too excited about using them to defend our positions.
The “Blue Sky” Analysis. Since 1991 the SBC ACP numbers show two categories that have exceeded the 21% growth rate in the US population: AM Worship (34%) and Gifts (131%). These are positive indicators. Taken by itself the AM Worship number seems good. There are more people, on average, hearing the Word of God on a Sunday morning. The gift number is especially interesting. The 131% number is shocking to me. However, when we adjust for inflation and look at the gifts on a per capita basis (AM Worship) the increase drops to 38%. Still, that is a good sign and we can be excited that the gifts have increased very significantly, however the more interesting question is why have they increased? If they have increased because our people are becoming better givers and disciples, then we can celebrate. But, hold the balloons. Older folks tend to have more disposable income and are better givers. If the average age of those giving has increased significantly it may point to a growing problem, the aging of the SBC. If the number of estate gifts is up sharply this number is especially problematic. The numbers on the surface may appear to be good, but actually point to a looming problem. The study by the LifeWay group showing the average age of the attendees of the convention increasing seems to support this. I don’t have the answers, I’m just asking questions.
The “Middle of the Road” Analysis. Since 1991 the number of SBC churches has increased 17%. Combined with the increase in attendance the average SBC church has grown from 120 to 138 in attendance in AM worship. In 1991 there was one SBC church for every 6500 Americans, in 2007 that number increased to 6750 Americans/SBC. This maybe good or bad. Part of the problem is looking only at national numbers. While the number of churches nationally may have nearly kept pace with the US population, churches in specific areas may not have. For example, we have seen a population explosion in the NW, but not an explosion in the number of SBC churches. (Also note that the southern US completely dominates the SBC ACP statistics. The southern culture is different. And for those who do not think that there is a cultural difference think grits, sweet tea and catfish vs. apples, coffee, and salmon. But that is another post for another day.)
The “Sky is Falling” analysis. In 1991 we had 4,500,000 people attending Am worship. Since 1991 we have baptized 6,500,000 people. But, we have only seen an increase in Sunday AM worship of about 1,600,000. WHERE ARE THE OTHER 3,900,000 PEOPLE? I know 750,000 have died and there are some questions as to how many of the baptisms are rededications, validations and such, but the numbers are too far apart and cannot be explained away. The numbers simply don’t add up. We either have an aging problem that borders on the catastrophic or a serious problem with understanding discipleship, baptism, and membership.
Thoughts and Comments. I actually have a lot more analysis. Some of the numbers are rather interesting. Engineers can get a little “geeky” when it comes to numbers. But it is time for some thoughts and comments so folks can break out the flamethrowers. I don’t think the number of baptisms is the problem. The number of baptisms/SS Attendee has changed little since 1971, about 10:1. If you assume that your SS Attendee is your “committed” individual, those folks are out doing evangelism. It hasn’t changed much in over 35 years. Warning: I feel a rant coming on…We can harp all we want about going out and getting folks evangelized and baptized, but the folks that have been doing just that, are doing that and have been for 35 years and are probably getting a little tired of the powers that be bashing them over the head for doing the same job they have been doing for 35 years. The problem is not these folks doing the job, but that there are not nearly enough of these folks. We are not making disciples. (By the way, the 47:1 (members/baptisms) being thrown around the blogs is a nearly a useless statistical number for analysis IMO. Non-existent people always do a poor job of evangelism).
The problem is discipleship. The problem is that those “committed” believers, SS Attendees, have only increased at 1/3 the rate (7% vs. 21%) of the US population since 1991, while the AM attendance has increased 34%. When you look at the raw numbers, since 1991 we have added 6 times as many folks to the AM Worship as we have Sunday school. It seems to me that we have done a good job with getting folks to AM worship. But, I don’t believe that AM worship is much of an arena for discipleship. It is the “show” or the place of the information impartation. I believe that discipleship takes place in a smaller, face-to-face setting like small groups or Sunday school.
Folks, since 1991 we have baptized over 1.4 times as many folks as we had attending Sunday AM worship in that year. It takes 4 baptisms to make one AM attendee, 6 baptisms to make a member and about 23 baptisms to make one SS Attendee. We can get people to worship and we can get them baptized, but are we making disciples?
I think the real question the ACP numbers are begging us to engage is, “Do you understand what the great commission is?” Baptisms? AM worship attendance? SS enrollment? Resident members? More churches? Gifts? Make disciples – bingo! Do this and the other “numbers” will fall into place. I think that we have put too much focus on the numbers and we develop programs and measurement to encourage and produce statistical numbers, but do not encourage and produce the thing (discipleship) that will result in real, long term “numbers.”
When I had my own consulting business, my experience in different plants and operations gave me a good feel for what was going on and helped me to see problems and notice trends quickly. My “gut” feelings were often right. Ed Stetzer has been sounding an alarm over on his blog about the ACP numbers. While I don’t like the numbers he is using from a statistics point of view (I think there are better indicators), I think his experience and feel for things SBC are good. He certainly has been around the country, has great experience and a good pulse of what is going on. His gut (and some interesting ACP numbers) is telling him we need to address some problems.
I think we need to listen.



Keith,
Thanks for sharing your words and thoughts today.
First and foremost, I appreciate the time and energy you gave to the study. You did not rush to judgement on what’s being said or written. You did not lambast bloggers or others in what you said. You have simply given a good, thoughtful, “geeky” approach to something that is difficult, at best, to understand. I appreciate the spirit in which you write!
So much is missing from ACP numbers. Several states did not report at all this year (California and BGCT are two examples). Those omissions, for whatever reason, certainly change how we interpret the numbers.
Also, how many churches simply used last years numbers to meet the demand to complete the paperwork?
For years, I’ve heard of pastors and staff members who inflate the numbers as well so that their personal status will look better. Plus, some of the questions on the ACP are just difficult to answer with any honesty…who keeps all those records!
While I may or may not put much stock into the ACP numbers, I believe Ed is on target with sounding an alarm! Now is a time for a wake up among Southern Baptists. There are problems to address, and they should be addressed quickly! If not sooner!
Steve:
Thanks for the commments. It is difficult to put much stock in the numbers and the number (membership) that generates the most discussion is one of the worst. It is good for headlines though.
I know that there are all kinds of reporting “issues” as you have mentioned. I guess as a “numbers” guy I can hope that a best those issues remain consistent from year to year so we can try to observe trends.
Grace…
Keith
I like your thinking…needing numbers to stay consistent for observation. During the years as a pastor, I tried to make numerous observations about the numbers (in all honesty, being a far less “numbers” guy than you), but even with the best efforts, it’s sometimes difficult to make any judgements with integrity, the numbers just change so much.
But, as I said earlier, I really appreciate the spirit in which you wrote this piece. It just may be the most humble of all I’ve read about the ACP!
Keith,
Good perspective on statistical data. We obviously need more sbc pastors who grew up in all boys Catholic schools!
It seems apparent- and statistically so- that small group Bible classes (Sunday School by whatever name) have not done as well proportionately as worship attendance. It seems that we emphasize worship numbers now far more than SS numbers- the reverse of times past. We apparently lose something when we don’t keep pace with small group Bible classes. We apparently lose some evangelistic effectiveness and some genuine disciple making.
Might there be some validity to the adage “As the church gets larger (in worship attendance) it needs to get smaller (in small group Bible classes)? Have we lost something really important by the apparent de-emphasis on adult small groups in our churches? Might disciple making benefit from both corporate worship and small group fellowship and encouragement? Doug Munton
Steve:
The numbers don’t necessarily need to stay consistent, but the way we measure or define those numbers does (and/or we need to know what changes have taken place). While we may do a poor job of measuring something, if we are consistently bad, that’s good!
I don’t get too hung up on the numbers in our local church. I can remember or reconstruct them so they are fairly close. I just take notes on what I did and why and try to be consistent from year to year. As far as deriving any meaning from them, that is much more difficult.
Doug:
As the only Protestant at the school I had to learn to interpret “numbers” early on so I could argue against the “we are bigger so that means we are better” syndrome!
We will get more of whatever we reward or subsidize. AM Worship (like membership) are numbers that get headlines. Small groups and SS are not. I think the best place for discipleship is small groups. Not so surprisingly it is a also great place for evangelism. It is part of the “in your going” make disciples. People that would never step foot in the AM worship will go to someone’s house or small group.
I think the purpose of the AM worship is to build-up the church/body so that “in your going” we make disciples. I do not think AM worship is primarily about evangelism. It may happen there, can happen there, should happen there, will happen there, but it is not the focus.
Disciple making benefits from all of the different size groups. I think it starts (or should) in the family group and includes small groups and corporate worship. Each of these has advantages and disadvantages in disciple making.
Keith,
Hmmmm… making disciples… what a revolutionary concept.
I think an important corollary study to this would be how effective are our Sunday School programs at making disciples. Willow Creek, for example, recently did a study that demonstrated that they had not been near as effective at making disciples as they had hoped. And, now, they are undergoing a transition in their strategy to try to correct that.
Personally, it seems to me that 1 hours a week on Sunday mornings may not be getting the job done. Especially if the classroom time becomes essentially one more monologue to add to the Sunday AM service sermon, Sunday PM service sermon, Wednesday PM service sermon, and all the radio-TV sermons, etc.
We need planned opportunities to talk with each other, one-on-one, or in small groups, about what’s really going on in our lives, about our personal challenges and victories in our spiritual growth, holding each other accountable, etc.
This, no doubt, happens in some churches, and in some cases. But, I think the analysis you are giving us here points out that it needs to happen a whole lot more.
SBC pastors tend to emphasize worship attendance more now and SS attendance less. It used to be that pastors asked other pastors how many they had in SS- now in worship. Did we lose something in that change?
It seems, and your statistical analysis suggests, that a smaller percentage of adults are in a small group now than was the case in years gone by. If we devalue something that has great value (I am master of the obvious) we lose something valuable. Have we devalued small groups? Made them more difficult? Lost something by throwing out the SS model?
Worship is still the front door for much of the evangelism of our church. But a contributing factor is the relatively healthy small group system (SS) that helps us disciple, promote fellowship and reach out.
David:
Agreed, it does need to happen a whole lot more. One hour on Sunday morning listening to a talking head does not even come close to the definition if discipleship. One of the missing pieces of discipleship is that face-to-face piece. I think discipleship occurs in community, walking with others. More information is not the problem, it is integrating that information into our walk and working with others, being accountable…living life together is paramount. Sounds like Someone I know!
Doug:
Yes we did lose something in that exchange. We increased our numbers, but lost out on making disciples. FYI, the ratio of SS attendees/AM Worship Attendees has been on a steady decline since 1991, from 86% to 69%. That works out to a little more than a 20% drop (for those that think the number is a 17% decrease and I have done my math wrong, guess again). Now I realize that some of that is due to changes in SS vs. small groups, but I don’t think that this accounts for all of the decrease and thus the trend is not good.
Worship is still the front door, but should it be?
I’ll take any door to evangelism that I can find. Many of our witnesses find that Sunday worship (actually we have a Sat. evening service in addition to our Sunday services) is a help to their sharing. People who come to worship have questions, worship is itself a witness, stereotypes get broken down, etc.
But I have noticed that most of the consistent witnesses in our church are in small group Bible study themselves. So, if we lose small groups we lose something in outreach as well it seems.
I just lament the loss of adult participation in small groups that is apparently becoming more common in our convention. Doug
P.S. While the SS model has some limitations (usually only one hour, the church setting isn’t as intimate, etc.) it seems that the churches who use a home group or cell model have an even smaller percentage of adults involved in small groups.
Doug:
On my spreadsheet I haven’t broken down the SS Attendance by age (I get kind of tired of punching in numbers) but I suspect that if we looked at the percentage of adults we would be appalled. An interesting number would be to compare the ratio of kids/adults in SS and small groups vs. the ratio of kids/adults involved in AM worship.
All:
Please do not think I am ignoring your comments. I have to go retrieve my oldest from college so I will be out for a couple of hours.
Keith
I agree with you and David R. above that the issue boils down to what is described above as, Make disciples – bingo! Do this and the other “numbers” will fall into place.
In our own work in Ecuador, we are trying to share less, and implement more. In other words, we are cutting back on the amount of new information (data) that people are being expected to absorb, and spending more time relating to, and acting upon smaller bits of shared truth.
Making disciples must not be confused with one-way teaching/preaching coming from SS classes, pulpits, conferences, Sunday AM services, seminars, etc. Yet I fear we have confused these good activities with what Christ told us to be about 2000 years ago!
Guy:
Amen and Amen…
It is not about information, but obedience. And I think that as we learn to obey what we know, God teaches us more.
Share less, implement more, sounds like a motto! That would be a “good” number to measure. What is the ratio of implementation/sharing? It should be 1, but I am afraid that it is closer to 0.
Key thought #1…
“Making disciples” is usually interpreted as “make people feel guilty for not coming to SS or church in hopes that they’ll come.”
Key thought #2…
We’re much more likely to attend things we enjoy. This leads to key thought #3…
Key thought #3…
Doesn’t it follow that the most effective way to increase attendance in SS or in small groups would be to make those events more enjoyable? (The definition of enjoyable, to me, is basically “an environment which stimulates, encourages, excites, and uplifts.”)
Guilt trips and manipulation based on “YOU NEED TO BE IN SS” mentality isn’t discipleship. Discipleship requires arousing interest, encouraging others to love and enjoy God, and stimulating young believers to a deeper relationship – regardless of their SS or worship attendance. If our only goal is their attendance, we are greatly missing the point. GREATLY. Attendance is a good indicator, but we can’t get twisted up into thinking that it’s the goal. I know of wonderful disciples who are hardly EVER able to attend church. Some are homebound. Some are in nursing homes. Some are just old and sickly. But they are faithful disciples.
Looking at church statistics for real discipleship indications is a hard game.
Bernard:
Agreed. Numbers in and of themselves do not always measure “success.” More numbers in SS or small group attendance may mean “guilt trip” or “enjoyable environment.” The number or just attendance is never the goal. If you have a lot of extra time, like most people
, a book called “The Goal: A Process of Ongoing Improvement” by Goldratt and Cox is an interesting read. It is written as a novel so it reads easy.
Key thought #4…
Small groups are not the goal either. It is discipleship, however that occurs.
Perhaps a better discussion is “what is discipleship?” And you are right; trying to measure that in a real way is very difficult. It will take a multivariate approach and I’m pretty sure that we do not have enough information or have been asking the right questions. One thing I do know for sure, total membership is not that number. But, maybe with a little thinking we can come up with a better one.