;)
King of the SBC
Posted by Bowden McElroy in Uncategorized
Rick Thompson is an IMB trustee with a blog. Mostly he writes about the church he pastors and the mission work they do. On a recent post Rick wrote (in the comments) about what he would do if he were “King of the SBC”. Good stuff; surf over and read what he has to say. Rick got me to thinking about what I would do if I were King.
First, the IMB. The Trustee Code of Conduct has a couple of inconsistencies. The code states in the very first paragraph that the Board is not to be “directly involved in day-to-day management and administration”. Boards are to set direction and policy, hire the executive officers, and ask the tough questions that oversight and accountability demand. Boards are not to to do the actual work of the organization. So why does the same document also mandate trustees “review and approve the appointment, re-appointment, employment, termination, resignation, reassignment between regions and retirement of career, associate, and apprentice field personnel”? That sounds like day to day management to me.
Remove the Board from day to day operations and they don’t need to meet as often. Nor does it need to be as large as it is. A smaller board focusing on vision and accountability will have a better chance of peacefully resolving issues than the current structure allows. (I would also change what others have called the “gag rule”; rather than repeat myself, you can read what I’ve written on my own blog.)
The Seminaries. I really wouldn’t change much here. I like the fact that our seminaries are a little different from each other. I’m all for choice. I would, though, eliminate the undergraduate colleges. I think they stretch the resources of the seminaries too far. If the complaint is that some states have lost control of their Baptist universities, then I understand the desire to fill a need. But, my CP dollars already support a solid college in my state; every time I think of undergraduate colleges at the seminaries, I am confronted with the states and the SBC duplicating efforts. If I were King of the SBC there would be no more duplication.
NAMB. Here’s where I get really radical. Since I think churches are best suited to birth new churches, I would change NAMB from a missions organization to a trust that awards grants for church planting. Churches could apply for a grant individually or associations/state conventions could apply on behalf of several churches. Church planting would be in the hands of churches, not in a large parachurch ministry. No more duplication of efforts.
Finally, I would eliminate the ERLC. Make it a department of Lifeway in the same manner as Lifeway Research. Richard Land and his staff could write white papers and discipleship material. We would be out of the lobbyist business. I want to see us engaging the culture with a goal of transformed lives and out of the culture warrior business.
Clearly I am not King of the SBC. Nor will I ever be. But I can think and dream. What about you? What would you do if you were King of the SBC?
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
;)
Bowden,
I think we already have a King of the SBC
“Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, and you are exalted as head above all. Both riches and honor come from you, and you rule over all.In your hand are power and might, and in your hand it is to make great and to give strength to all.”
1 Chronicles 29:11-12
So if I were Prime Minister, the first thing I would do would be to remind everyone of the Kingship of Christ. Then I would spend much time in prayer. And if God led me to do so, I would sell all the State Convention, NAMB and Executive buildings and move those operations into church buildings with extra space with inexpensive long-term leases. I would also give all those employees laptops and let them work from home more. Then I would take the billion dollars we made selling all the buildings and create an endowment for church planting.
R. Ferrell has offered a motion. Is there a second?
Roger,
So… decentralization and greater use of technology. I like it.
These are the kind of blog postings that get me in trouble with the establishment.
Roger,
Oh, come on! These are structural changes that wouldn’t necessarily benefit any one faction within the SBC. If we can’t talk about ways to create a more efficient Convention for the 21st century, then we really are in trouble.
(Okay… my ERLC comment is designed to upset the status quo, but the rest of the changes would still necessitate building a consensus around what it means to be Southern Baptist. Those who want to argue and fuss could continue to do so.)
Roger, I love your King. I met Him and really really like what He has to say. He has given me daily audiences with Him and just today, He told me you were a great guy.
He didn’t actually tell me you’d be Prime Minister, but from most of what you write, I wouldn’t mind voting for you if you had a group of establishment thinkers like me as advisers. Truly, these are some good ideas for restructuring some stuff. Just can’t even imagine how any of it could be done without someone wanting to change the carpet color in the rented church offices, though.
Bowden, I appreciate the grace with which you write. And while some of we “establishment” type folk are cemented into the cornerstones of our heritage, I don’t think we cannot think outside the box on some stuff. selahV
Geoff,
Second!!! Is there any more discussion?
Bowden,
A great post! This is clearly thinking outside of the box, which is almost unheard of in SBC life.
I especially resonate with eliminating the undergrad colleges on seminary campuses. While I was in seminary, and I know many of the seminaries have taken steps to alleviate the pain, but most of the colleges simply duplicated an M. Div. When a young person found themselves in the seminary after having graduated they were repeating a lot of the same course load, some to the tune of thirty hours. It may be different now, I don’t know for sure.
And do away with the ERLC. Fine by me. The SBC should not be participating in partisan politics in any way for it negatively impacts evangelism in America. We have been too closely wed to the GOP for too long and it seems a nasty divorce is on the horizon.
Bowden,
Unfortunately, any change hurts some group or some person. Do away with the buildings and you no longer need janitors. Give everyone laptops and half the administrative assistant jobs go away. It is not my desire to hurt anyone by suggesting change. But we must decrease the bureaucracy and increase the # of missionaries and their effectiveness to be obedient to the Great Commission.
Selah, if we had an SBC prime minister, he would be wise to assemble a cabinet like we have here at SBC Impact: caring folks from different backgrounds and parts of the world who are quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to anger, who do their homework, are open to new ideas, and who obviously care about each other, the kingdom they serve, and the king they love.
You personally would serve in the cabinet as the Senior advisor, Elucidation, Love And Hopeful Vision (SELAHV for short).
Whoa! I’m so honored.
selahV Yeah, it ain’t enough for me to get such a gracious acrostic from you, is it? Women…always wanting more. 
Senior cause I’m the oldest, huh?
Advisor cause I’m the senior of the lot, huh?
Elucidation because I’m love to explain elucidation, huh?
Love cause I’m just full of it, huh?
Hopeful because there’s nothing in life without it, huh?
Vision because I can see where this is all leading, huh?
Back to the drawing board…gotta write a new devotional for tomorrow’s dailyIMPACT. wish you dudes would come tell me how wonderful I am over there.
I appreciate your insight into the IMB trustee situation…Come on, who is really sending the missionary, the IMB, or the local church?
Regarding the undergrad colleges, I’m going to give you a little different perspective. Namely, because I graduated from one of them.
If it had not been for the College on Southeastern’s Campus, I probably would have left the SBC and become a Charismatic preacher or something like that. I felt called to ministry while in college, but having fallen out of the state programs, my pastor said I needed an education. I took his word and immediately entered SECWF. I needed the education because I was called to ministry. Had I not been called, yeah, perhaps it would have been better if I attended another school. Yeah, someone still said I “needed” an MDiv, but I really didn’t. I say we eliminate the seminaries and have high quality undergrad seminaries. Okay, that was a radical, hornery statement. I don’t really believe it. But, they have alleviated the academic duplication. An MDiv for Christian college grads, not just the seminary colleges, can be completed in 75 hours at Southeastern. It freed me up to earn two masters degrees in four years–MDiv and MAIS (intercultural studies).
I think there are many other people who benefit from the undergrads–pastors with no Bachelor’s degree but who are a bit older, people who are ready for ministry but don’t care much about a liberal arts degrees, people who smaller schools and a better spiritual environment.
Question, financially, how much CP assistance do these colleges receive? Tuition as Southeastern’s college is at least twice that of the Seminary. I think the Seminary presidents are aware of the financial duplication. Perhaps we would be served by some hard data.
Also, how many lay people know anything about our state convention supported schools? Probabaly less than we realize. How many lay people can tell the difference between those schools and secular institutions? Who are the majority of people sending kids off to college? Answer, lay people. Seminary run undergrads appeal to lay people whose children are serious about ministry. Their only other option might be Liberty, not a SBC institution, right?
So, even though none of us are kings, let us not too quickly jettison the colleges!
Wes, thanks so much for your input. I don’t know if anyone else thinks it good, but I for one have just been educated a bit. When my 36-year-old precision gage-maker husband was called to preach in New England, we had no clue what he needed to do to be educated. He couldn’t imagine going to college. He’d graduated highschool at 18 and entered the Marine Corp straight out of highschool.
We were fortunate to have a SB pastor who’d graduated from Southern and knew about a little tiny school they had filled with preachers such as chiles, Kruschwitz, Dr. Redding and many others including Dr. Francisco’s wife who taught English. It was an extension of So.Sem. I understand it is a college today. From that school my husband was able to learn and grow in wisdom and knowledge enough to pastor some churches for nearly 23 years in Kentucky and is still preaching today. It turned out some folk who were at first very intimidated with higher education that went on to graduate from colleges, seminaries and receive the esteemed title of Dr.
What I loved about Boyce Bible School was the many classes afforded me as a future minister’s wife. I was able to take night courses in the interpretation of scripture, counseling courses in family ministry and a writing course under the associate editor of the Western Recorder.
I’m assuming, because I wasn’t sure what my colleges here were talking about when they mentioned the undergraduate schools, that Boyce Bible School (now college) is what they would have us eliminate. And if that is so, then as Senior advisor Elucidation, Love, Hope And Vision of our imaginary kingdom, I am requesting our Prime Minister look more closely at this liquidation of undergrad schools. Had it not been for that little community of folk, Dr. Peter Lumpkins might still be a bumpkin as he is so affectionately considered by the little guy running things in the outer regions of our kingdom.
And, I would never have had the opportunity to write for the Western Recorder, learned of the writer’s conferences in Nashville with our curriculum or come to understand the thread of a call to greater righteousness found in the book of Matthew.
Thanks for your wonderful testimony, Wes. I’m sure we here at sbcIMPACT will consider your thoughts because we are a collaboration of cooperating diverse thinkers. selahV
that should have been “my esteemed colleagues”, uh duh, not “my esteemed colleges”. goes to show how my fingers get ahead of my brains sometimes. selahV
Wes,
The issue, for me, is one of financial stewardship and duplication of efforts. For every dollar an Oklahoma church gives to the CP, a (large) portion of it stays in Oklahoma to fund various ministries. A significant portion of the money that stays in the state is given to Oklahoma Baptist University.
Then, of the money sent on to the SBC a part of each dollar goes to the seminaries. If the seminary has an undergraduate college associated with it, then a part of my CP offerings are spent duplicating the work already being done on Bison Hill.
I’m glad you had a good experience at the seminary affiliated college you attended. But you could just as easily attended a SBC college funded by a state convention.
I see that duplication as poor stewardship.
Wes,
Another thought. Let’s imagine the seminary affiliated colleges have strict accounting and fund raising protocols in place so that NO CP monies are spent on the college. There are still two problems with that.
First, unless they bought adjacent land and built new buildings, the college is still using seminary resources. And if they use seminary faculty to teach the undergrad courses then – even if they pay them from a separate account – resources in terms of the time and energy of the prof’s are being diverted from the seminary.
The second problem is that you can never be certain that the gifts and endowments the college receives wouldn’t have been given to the seminary had the college not existed. Perhaps there are some who would give to the college that would never give to the seminary. Isn’t it more likely that the benefactor who endows an undergraduate program would have been willing to endow a graduate program? It just seems cleaner (simpler) to leave undergraduate education to the state conventions.
Now, a cooperative venture with the state convention where the seminary lends accreditation, expertise, and their name to a college that the state convention is paying for and will eventually assume full responsibility for… that I would have no problem with.
Brother Bowden, (first, as a preface to what I’m going to say, this is a good conversation, so don’t read any tone into my words, I am happy, cool, calm and am smiling as I write.)
I think you have some keen insights into the financial side of it all. One question though, How many baptist colleges are there in a given state? I don’t know. But if there are more than one, then I think there is sufficient warrant for another.
Also, when CP money is given to a state convention, the state gets to skim off the top, to the order usually of 60 to 65%. That percentage is used to fund a state college. The seminaries, I think, I could be wrong, are funded from 1/4 of the remainder. So, even if CP funds reach the colleges, I would not consider it unreasonable no duplication in that sense (perhaps in others), as long as the seminaries view the colleges as vital aspects of their vision.
OBU is a great school, I have friends who graduated from there and whose hearts for Jesus are white hot. I am from Virginia, I couldn’t name the Baptist school in our state. When I was a teenager, the pastors were more excited about folks getting into UVA, Virginia Tech, even Old Dominion, than even Liberty. So, if there is a Baptist U in VA, then it is on the list way below where anybody is looking. My youth pastor was happy if his students went to community college.
Now, I’m a NC Baptist, member of a NC Baptist church for six years, don’t want to leave. What about the problems we have in my state with the Baptist school? I still give to the CP because I believe in it, but I would love to tailor my giving to exclude some of the NCBC programs because I disagree with them. However, I don’t. Similar to the fact that I don’t stop paying taxes because my kids are too young for school. The schools benefit somebody, and I am glad.
What about other states, like New Hampshire, Alaska, Montana, Hawaii. Do all 50 states have a baptist school? Do all of the x number (I can’t recall the number off the top of my head) state conventions support a university? What about the states with split conventions? One role the seminary undergrads play is providing baccealaurate education for those from conventions who have not or cannot provide the ministry.
Plus the seminary schools may cater to students who would never consider a state convention school, for whatever reason. What about location (big factor in why students choose one school over another)?
I mean, these schools have limited financial assistance, students have to fight to be eligible for government grants, would they qualify for government assisted student loans?, almost all of the students have to work at least part time, if not full time to attend. 90% of the students attend the seminary schools at great risk by their own choice. They may have chosen a secular school over the state convention school.
I know things get very complicated here. I am largely ignorant of why it would be a problem for CP funds to be used in the undergrad programs. Is it because the seminaries are taking upon themselves to make a decision the executive committee should make? I don’t know. Please enlighten me. But, I know, Whenever money is involved, even the best Christians’ tempers flare.
Thanks for letting me write this dissertation, sorry about the length. I look forward to your response. I need correction. Thanks, brother.
Sister SelahV,
Thanks for your reply as well, I almost missed it. I think you bring up a great situation. What of the history at Southern? The WMU training school? Colleges or schools associated with the seminaries have a good tradition.
Wes,
My vision of a efficacious 21st century convention is one that is: streamlined, decentralized, and doesn’t take on a task best left to the churches.
As long as I’m dreaming about how to restructure the convention… I’ll be a little ruthless. Having established the above criteria, I would – if I’m King or Prime Minister – apply them equally. Otherwise, every one would have their own pet ministries to try and save.
Colleges and seminaries definitely fall into the not-best-left-to-the-churches category (one or two churches couldn’t do it by themselves). Leaving colleges to the state conventions does meet my criteria of being decentralized.
Again, duplication of effort would be the first thing to go (in that fantasy world where I am King for a Day). Associations would never take on a task or program one or two churches could do, state conventions would not duplicate efforts of associations, and the SBC would not take on a task the states are already doing.
As far as states that don’t have colleges, if those students would have to move out of state anyway, why not go to OBU or Union or some other solid SBC affiliated college?
Remember, this isn’t a post about the “evil colleges”. I don’t particularly have an agenda one way or the other about the college at Southeastern or elsewhere. This is a post about what the Convention of the future should look like.
sorry, I wasn’t trying to hijack your post, I’m just curious about these things. Just wanted to discuss the issue. Thanks for letting me respond.
If I had the knowledge back in the day, I would have loved to attend OBU.
I can appreciate your effort as King to make some changes. With any administration, sacrifices have to be made.
I would work on the IMB, getting churches back in the role as sending agency of missionaries. Restructuring the board to be more of a facilitating role. Don’t know how I would do that yet, I would need lots of advisors.